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Dan's Direct-Flame Roaster
Dan
Top  #201 Print Post
Posted on 07/23/2012 7:22 PM
I'm looking into using the Carlisle JM1 and JM3 tips for my flame roaster for three reasons. Available in U.S., short length, pipe thread fitting. See the discussion on page 3 for more information:

http://forum.home...ad_id=2144
 
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Dan
Top  #202 Print Post
Posted on 08/04/2012 12:54 PM
I'm designing the burner assembly now. It's something I couldn't work on until I had the major parts of the roaster put together. I think my plan will work out. It will be easy to make changes since it's mostly piping.
I ordered a JM-1 and JM-3 Carlisle burner yesterday, both with 1/8" NPTF. The price of one alone didn't make the $50 minimum order, and since I don't know which tip will work the best, I ordered one of each.

I'm going to put all the controls nearby including gas regulator, on/off valve, and ON-OFF-ON switch for the drum and cooling tray motors.

Not a lot of physical progress, but another design hurdle left behind.
 
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seedlings
Top  #203 Print Post
Posted on 08/06/2012 7:52 AM
It's the Robbie Robot Roaster! This thing looks elegant and sexy.

What's the color pattern????

woohoo

CHAD
Roaster: CoffeeAir II 2# DIY air roaster
Grinder: Vintage Grindmaster 500
Brewers: Vintage Cory DCU DCL, Aeropress, Press, Osaka Titanium pourover
 
Dan
Top  #204 Print Post
Posted on 08/06/2012 9:07 AM
Black is too obvious. I'm thinking of using some leftover automotive enamel I have. It's Honda Kiwi Green. It'll be more durable than black paint from a spray bomb.
Dan attached the following image:
2007hondaelement.jpg
 
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Dan
Top  #205 Print Post
Posted on 08/08/2012 5:24 PM
Got the Carlisle torch tips this morning. They are solid stainless steel with 1/8" female pipe threads. The JM-3 has 1/4" male threads, too. First thing I'll do is hook them up and see what length of flame they make at various pressures.

claycritters.com/coffee/bollinger_flame_roaster/bfr23.jpg
 
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Dan
Top  #206 Print Post
Posted on 08/11/2012 9:16 AM
The Carlisle tips were a bust. They must be blow torch tips intended for using on an unregulated propane source. With my regulator turned down they made a puny yellow flame. With it turned up to full pressure, about 5psi, they produced a three-foot yellow flame. I suspect a blue flame is full pressure, but still a long and hot flame. The orifices on these were about 3/16?.

Dismayed by my purchase, and disgruntled by their performance, I resolved to resolve this problem by seeing if I could make my own torch tip from scratch. What I want is something like the Sievert venturi tip with its short blue flame, but with lower BTU and 90? 1/8? pipe inlet. So in a fit a determination and buyer?s remorse I turned on the shop lights and went to work.

I found a short piece of 7/8? brass tubing for the shroud and some bar stock for the body. A brass screw would suffice for the orifice. After some sketching I figured out that the shroud could be secured just with the gas pipe. This means that the shroud can be removed to adjust the air supply slots or change the orifice.

I made the dimensions proportionally smaller than the Sievert 2942 (26kW) tip I have. I suspect my tip is close to the 2941 (12kW), or perhaps a little smaller. I made the orifice a #76 drill, which is very small, but I can always drill it out if I need more heat.

The first firing was exciting. The torch lit instantly and produced a sputtering blue flame with the regulator set at 2-3 psi. I turned the pressure down to under 1 psi and the flame settled down to a quiet soft blue flame about 6? long. I?ll know more about the pressure once I buy a 0-5 psi gauge. The 0-30 psi gauge I have is difficult to read and probably inaccurate at the beginning of its range. It was breezy and gusty, but the flame never went out. In fact, at one time the flame was turning 90?, but rock steady!

The good news is that I have a burner for my flame roaster. The important news is that this means we can make our own burners for roasters.

claycritters.com/coffee/bollinger_flame_roaster/bfr24.jpg
 
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Dan
Top  #207 Print Post
Posted on 08/11/2012 9:42 AM
Corrections:

1. The orifice is a #74 drill.

2. This burner is probably equivalent to the Sievert 3941 tip.
http://www.siever...337&l=
 
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coffeeroastersclub
Top  #208 Print Post
Posted on 08/11/2012 3:03 PM
Dan, the nozzles you made look like the ones you see on the end of propane blowtorches. The Carlisles look like the ones you see on the ends of those ice melter/weed burners. I see that the Carlisle tips also have the air enter behind the propane outlet while the one you made have it enter after the propane outlet. That with the big orifaces they have probably caused the yellow flame issues?

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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RoasterRob
Top  #209 Print Post
Posted on 08/11/2012 7:31 PM

Quote

With it turned up to full pressure, about 5psi


The Sievert burners are designed to run at 2bar + which is about 28psi. Why are you trying to run a burner at a maximum of 5psi? I would expect the flame to get snuffed out very easily. Attached is a photo showing the end view of the 3941 and 2941 burner.
Rob
RoasterRob attached the following image:
3941and2941.jpg
VBM Minimax 2gp, 1gp Reneka Techno, 2 gp la Pavoni Pub, la Cimbali M28, SJ Maz, FB 6kg HM roaster and other stuff
 
Dan
Top  #210 Print Post
Posted on 08/11/2012 10:12 PM
Rob, I think you misread my post. The first paragraph is just about the Carlisle tips. To test them I used the regulator that came with my Sievert 2942 hand torch. I'm sure it develops 2 bar. But note that I was using it with the Carlisle tips with their huge orifice. With the regulator adjusted for maximum output the pressure was 5 psi. That was all the back pressure it could muster, but even then it was too much for my application.
 
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RoasterRob
Top  #211 Print Post
Posted on 08/12/2012 12:37 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:

Rob, I think you misread my post. The first paragraph is just about the Carlisle tips. To test them I used the regulator that came with my Sievert 2942 hand torch. I'm sure it develops 2 bar. But note that I was using it with the Carlisle tips with their huge orifice. With the regulator adjusted for maximum output the pressure was 5 psi. That was all the back pressure it could muster, but even then it was too much for my application.


Ok, didn't realize you were using the sievert reg. They go to 4 bar if it is the same as mine. Actually didn't realize you had a 2941 torch, wouldn't bothered putting the photos in if I had.
But your homemade burner was running at 1 psi? Did you try running it at higher pressures? Do you have a washer type plate half way down the tube of your burner like the sievert ones? This may help stabilize the flame.

Rob
VBM Minimax 2gp, 1gp Reneka Techno, 2 gp la Pavoni Pub, la Cimbali M28, SJ Maz, FB 6kg HM roaster and other stuff
 
Dan
Top  #212 Print Post
Posted on 08/12/2012 6:08 AM
I'm not sure of the exact pressure yet. I was using a cheap 1" 0-30 psi gauge and gauges Bourdon tube gauges are not accurate near the end of their scales. I'll know more later when I install a good one.

I did run it at higher pressures and got a good flame. I believe I mentioned this. It was around 5 psi. As I mentioned, the flame was sputtering, which I think is an indication that it wants a larger orifice. However, I don't want the higher BTUs that I'd get using a larger orifice.

I left off the diffuser plated until I knew if I needed it or not. I don't think I'll need it. Not all venturi torch tips use them. I don't know what it does exactly, perhaps stabilizes, perhaps changes the shape of the flame. I'm pleased with the flame I have now. I might have to modify it, but I won't know until I begin using it for roasting.
 
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allenb
Top  #213 Print Post
Posted on 08/12/2012 11:23 AM
Dan,

Sorry to hear that the Carlisle site doesn't state clearly what their burner tips are good for. It would sure be helpful it they or any of the burner companies would show an example of the type of flame they emit so we wouldn't dump $ for paper weights! I wonder if Carlisle would be willing to do a swap for a useful tip if not a refund?

Once we get to the bottom of it I'll put in a "caution" note next to the link so nobody else gets hosed.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
Top  #214 Print Post
Posted on 08/12/2012 1:37 PM
They are very pretty paper weights! Excellent machine work.

I asked the tech rep about recommended pressures and the flame length, but he said they didn't have that information. They were cheap enough, so I'll just put them on eBay some day. The largest might find its way to a replacement for my very noisy weedburner.

Now that I've made what I think is the perfect tip I have no interest in swapping the Carlisle's for a non-so-perfect tip. My side-inlet 1/8" pipe thread torch tip will make for a neat and compact installation on this roaster.
 
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Dan
Top  #215 Print Post
Posted on 08/15/2012 11:04 AM
Here's the gas supply configuration. Everything is 1/8" brass pipe. Starting on the right, moving left: new side-inlet burner, elbow and pipe back to ball valve, regulator with gauge, and finally an elbow down to propane cylinder. A set screw pressing on the pipe behind the regulator let's me adjust the burner position. I'll use a high-pressure hose to connect the elbow to an Acme propane nut. I advise using these for two reasons: first, you don't need a wrench to connect them; second, they contain a safety valve that will shut the gas supply should the hose or piping fail.

claycritters.com/coffee/bollinger_flame_roaster/bfr25.jpg
 
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Dan
Top  #216 Print Post
Posted on 11/19/2012 4:45 PM
I figured that I had better use this to make some roasts before the weather turned too cold to roast outdoors. Also, if I needed to make any changes, it's better to do that before I add paint.

So, I quickly hooked up the wiring and did a 3.3 pound roast yesterday and sure enough, I need to make some changes. More on the modifications later, I just wanted to update the project since this is the first time I've had a chance to work on it since August.

About the roast, with the burner starting out at 5 psi the drying phase proceeded well, but soon after first crack it proceeded too quickly even though I eventually got around to lowering it to 3 psi, but not soon enough. I finished with a rolling second at 10 minutes. Too quick, but it should still be drinkable. The worst case is I take the coffee into work--they'll drink anything!
 
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Dan
Top  #217 Print Post
Posted on 11/20/2012 9:21 AM
I've been thinking that when I get this machine up and running I'd like to enlist some folks here on HRO to do a blind taste test and see if flame roasting does improve the flavor as it has been claimed. If you recall from my original post, investigating this claim was the purpose of this project.
 
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allenb
Top  #218 Print Post
Posted on 11/20/2012 9:38 AM
Count me in! woohoo

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
Top  #219 Print Post
Posted on 02/02/2013 3:29 PM
FLAME ROAST TASTE TEST!

The time has come to test this project's premise that, according to one old report, direct-flame roasting produced better tasting coffee than indirect methods where the flame or heat source is outside the drum.

I need some tasters to evaluate beans roasted by these two methods. Both samples use the same bean roasted to the same profile (or as close as I could come). This will be a blind tasting. You won't know which bean is which until I publish the findings. Since this is just our first little test, let's keep in simple.

Instructions:
1. If you want to participate in this novel cupping, please send me your postal mailing address via PM. I'll send you 1/3 pound (150 grams) of each bean (I have about 3 pounds of each to distribute).
2. Each bag you receive will be numbered/lettered, and for the sake of keeping the test blind, all numbering/lettering will be different for each set of samples I mail.
3. Do a cupping in the next few weeks using whatever brewing method you like as long as you brew both beans the same way.
4. Report on this thread these five variables: brewing method, dry aroma (sniff the bag), wet aroma (sniff the cup), body, flavor. Use a 1-10 scale (no decimals, please, just whole numbers)
5. You can add more comments about the flavor if you like, but please, don?t post your guess which one is flame-roasted, I don't want others to become biased. I'd hate to throw out this test and start over.
6. I'll use statistical software to analyze your findings.
7. I'll report the findings here and tell you what beans were flame roasted. And just for fun, I'll compare our results to Tom's cupping of the same bean at Sweet Marias, too.

PS: I froze these beans just after roasting and I'll keep them frozen until the day I mail them to you, so check the postmark date. The difference will tell you how many days the beans rested. If you can't brew the beans after they've rested 3-5 days, please keep them in the fridge or freezer until you can.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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allenb
Top  #220 Print Post
Posted on 02/02/2013 8:20 PM
I'm in, can't wait to do the cupping! I've always wanted to taste coffee roasted via direct flame.

PM sent.

Thanks Dan

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Dan
Top  #221 Print Post
Posted on 02/04/2013 2:24 PM
The first four samples mailed today. smile
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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Lawnmowerman
Top  #222 Print Post
Posted on 02/07/2013 6:00 PM
Recieved parcel today. I could smell the beans through the box. Three days from postmark. Two samples marked 4 and 10. Waiting for my wife to return from errands before tasting. Will be using manual drip. Basket filter not cone. Both samples displayed a very pungent quality but with markedly different levels of strength,with sample4 being nearly over powering @ I would say a 9. Sample 10 @ a level 3. As to appearance,sample 4 looks darker, and has exuded much oil. Sample 10 exibits hardly any surface oil @ all if any. Will get my wifes opinion. What ever origin this is I can only guess but my wife said it smelled like nothing we have ever had. I tend to agree. I guess in the interest of scientific accuracy that shouldnt be disclosed either. So... Will report back this evening.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
CharcoalRoaster
Top  #223 Print Post
Posted on 02/07/2013 9:48 PM
received my beans as well. I will be cupping tomorrow and report back - sir! cross fingers
 
Lawnmowerman
Top  #224 Print Post
Posted on 02/07/2013 11:41 PM
I liked sample10 better aroma dry@a3 aroma wet @a5 body@a8 flavor @a8 Sample4 aroma dry@a9 aroma wet @a5 body@a6 flavor@a6. The aroma in the cup was much less pronounced with both samples. My wife and I both agreed on this. Since we share almost every cup of coffee we drink, here are her scores: she preferred sample 4, with aroma dry@a9 aroma wet @a8 body@a8 and flavor@a9. Her scores for sample 10 were aroma dry@4 aroma wet@a6 body@a7 and flavor@a8. We also agree that both of these are excellent coffees and we will need to have other coffee on hand for when we dont have time to be subjective, like 1st thing in the morning. That way, we have time to properly evaluate and report all cuppings for these coffees. Thank you for allowing me to be included in this taste test. I believe I am very privileged.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
CharcoalRoaster
Top  #225 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 9:46 AM
Dan, I cupped your roast (delicious btw) this morning but can you clarify the scale for me?

What is the scale determining? 10 being the best coffee I've ever had? Thanks
 
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