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Dan's Direct-Flame Roaster
bvwelch
Top  #226 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 10:18 AM
I'm sorry I missed out on the taste test, but will enjoy reading about the results!
 
Dan
Top  #227 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 11:33 AM
Yes, 10 being the best. It's the same scale Sweet Marias uses.

Btw: Both coffees are the same bean, roasted for the same time, ending just as 2nd begins, and were identical in color when I mailed them. Any difference cuppers are seeing now is a result of the roast method.

bvwelch, I still have coffee I can send you and other cuppers. The more tests the better the results validity. Just PM me your snail mail address.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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jedovaty
Top  #228 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 11:53 AM
Dan, I'll PM you as well, this would be fun smile
 
coffeeroastersclub
Top  #229 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 11:57 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:

Yes, 10 being the best. It's the same scale Sweet Marias uses.

Btw: Both coffees are the same bean, roasted for the same time, ending just as 2nd begins, and were identical in color when I mailed them. Any difference cuppers are seeing now is a result of the roast method.

bvwelch, I still have coffee I can send you and other cuppers. The more tests the better the results validity. Just PM me your snail mail address.


Hello Dan. I missed your taste test. On a different but related matter, will you have an opportunity to post a video of your roaster in operation? I think that would be a real kick to see. cool

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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Dan
Top  #230 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 12:20 PM
Len, there's still time to participate, just PM me your snail mail address.

I think a video would be great, too. Let's wait for a warm day!
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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coffeeroastersclub
Top  #231 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 1:11 PM

Quote

Dan wrote:

Len, there's still time to participate, just PM me your snail mail address.

I think a video would be great, too. Let's wait for a warm day!


Just sent you my address. Thanks Dan!

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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Dan
Top  #232 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 3:25 PM
Len, I got your and Jedovaty's addresses and I managed to get them in the mail today.

Sorry folks, that's all the samples I have, so this cupping is closed. I'm excited to hear what the results are!
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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coffeeroastersclub
Top  #233 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 4:00 PM

Quote

Dan wrote:

Len, I got your and Jedovaty's addresses and I managed to get them in the mail today.

Sorry folks, that's all the samples I have, so this cupping is closed. I'm excited to hear what the results are!


Thanks Dan, I am very interested in seeing the differences in the roasts!

Len pouring
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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allenb
Top  #234 Print Post
Posted on 02/08/2013 10:53 PM
Mine arrived in today's mail. Great smelling mailbox!

I'll float some grounds tomorrow and make notes. pouring

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
Top  #235 Print Post
Posted on 02/10/2013 3:38 PM
Dan's Instructions:

4. Report on this thread these five variables: brewing method, dry aroma (sniff the bag), wet aroma (sniff the cup), body, flavor. Use a 1-10 scale (no decimals, please, just whole numbers)
5. You can add more comments about the flavor if you like, but please, don?t post your guess which one is flame-roasted, I don't want others to become biased. I'd hate to throw out this test and start over.

Brewing Method = Manual cone, Melitta #4. Water temp 198 F.

Sample #7
-Dry aroma 8
-Wet aroma 7
-Body 9
-Flavor 8
Bean appearance was dark brown with dry surface, somewhere in between Vienna and French roast. Grinding aroma very rich and intense.

Sample #5
-Dry aroma 6
-Wet aroma 6
-Body 7
-Flavor 6
Bean appearance appeared slightly darker most likely due to slight oil sheen on surface. This coffee rated lower due to thinner body/mouthfeel, more single dimensional flavor spectrum and a hint of a carbony note.

Thanks for allowing me to participate! Much fun.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Lawnmowerman
Top  #236 Print Post
Posted on 02/10/2013 6:37 PM
No scores for day 4. These are our scores for day 5,yesterday. My scores for sample 4: aroma dry 4. Aroma wet 3. Body 5. Flavor 7. Sample 10: aroma dry 3. Aroma wet 5. Body 6. Flavor 5. My wifes scores for sample4: aroma dry 3. Aroma wet 6. Body 7. Flavor9. Her scores for sample 10: aroma dry 3. Aroma wet 4. Body 5. Flavor 7. It seems on day 5 I was starting to favor sample 4 for flavor. Both coffees seem to be rounding out rather nicely.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
jedovaty
Top  #237 Print Post
Posted on 02/13/2013 9:20 AM
Hi, I received samples 31 and 32 on monday! Boy - that was a unique smell. Coffee + grilled aged steak? o.O Errr.. something. Wood fire or I don't know. Burning wood early morning, I wanted bacon and steak and eggs, made me hungry. I usually don't eat much breakfast.

Not sure how to score 1-10 since there's only a slight difference in smell that I can't elaborate, and they taste nearly identical to me; any differences could be attributed to the brew method (hario v60 01), so I will try again tomorrow with a slightly more consistent method (I'll just do coarse grounds and spoon/slurp).
 
CharcoalRoaster
Top  #238 Print Post
Posted on 02/13/2013 9:28 AM
Thanks for the coffee to be cupped. I found it super interesting to see how the two compared. I think aromatic presence of direct-fired is the major distinguisher between the two.

BREWING METHOD - Aeropress

#32
Appearance - 9 (oils present on the surface, darker)
Aroma (dry) - 6 (distinct smoky/fire aroma)
Aroma (wet) - 5 (roasty but no nuanced aromatics)
Taste - 6 (dry finish, smoked, burnt sugar)
Body - 6 (good body but not syrupy,)

#41
Appearance - 9 (little to no oil)
Aroma (dry) - 7 (roasty but no discernable aromatics)
Aroma (wet) - 7 (cacao, tobacco, prune)
Taste - 7
Body - 7 (less body but more balanced)
 
CharcoalRoaster
Top  #239 Print Post
Posted on 02/13/2013 9:30 AM
UPDATE::

The scores I just posted were from last week when I cupped both roasts the day after receiving them. I brewed both this morning and the pungency has mellowed out.

FWIW
 
Lawnmowerman
Top  #240 Print Post
Posted on 02/14/2013 1:51 AM
Day 6. Feb 10. My scores: sample4: aroma dry@6. Aroma wet@4 body@3. Flavor@4. Sample10: aroma dry2. Aroma wet 4. Body 6 favor6. My wifes scores:sample4: aroma dry@3 aroma wet@3 body@5, flavor@7. Sample4:aroma dry3 aroma wet3 body5 flavor7. Sample10: aroma dry3 aroma wet5 body7flavor8. For a little more diversity here are our neighbors scores: sample 4: aroma dry4 aroma wet4 body 5 flavor 5. Sample 10: aroma dry6 aroma wet8 body8 flavor8. So day 5 I tended to favor sample 4 for flavor. Day 6 all 3 of us were favoring sample 10for flavor. Every time i have favored sample 10 for body, finding sample 4 to be lacking in comparison. The dry aroma has decreased considerably for both samples.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
Dan
Top  #241 Print Post
Posted on 02/14/2013 10:44 AM
Thanks, everyone. I've been traveling, and will start compiling this data this weekend, and post the results once I've gotten all the cupping scores.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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coffeeroastersclub
Top  #242 Print Post
Posted on 02/15/2013 9:37 PM
I got my beans today. Maybe a bit late because I had them shipped to my parcel pickup address. I apologize for this. However I do have some reports. I had #7 and #12. #7 had a darker appearance, seemed to me like a bit darker than Full City+ roast. #12 had a typical Full City roast appearance with no oils on surfaces of beans. I immediately tried the #7 in a brikka; I normally use a 6 cup dose from my Breville Smart Grinder ground to fine. The 6 cup dose overfilled the filter a bit, but I was able to make it settle by tapping the filter a few times on my countertop. The grounds were quite fluffy (more than normal whatever that means). When I did the brikka it choked a bit and I feel that I did not get the best out of the bean. Tomorrow I will do a Clever with it; and also do the same for the #12 batch. I think it will provide a better testing platform instead of the brikka.

As a side note, the brikka #7 brew had a good kick of caffeine to it.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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Dan
Top  #243 Print Post
Posted on 02/15/2013 9:44 PM
Thanks, Len, and don't forget, I'll need your 1-10 scale for dry aroma, wet aroma, body, and flavor.

Dan
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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yamhill
Top  #244 Print Post
Posted on 02/16/2013 11:02 AM
Dan,

Thanks again for sharing your coffee. It's a privilege to see your roaster take shape and taste the output.

sample 14
dry aroma 7
wet aroma 7
taste 6
body 7

sample 16
dry aroma 8
wet aroma 7
taste 7
body 8

Sample 14 had a much oilier appearance than 16, and 14 also appear a little darker. I tried a cupping approach to taste them last Saturday and added one of my roasts to the test - but a cold dulled my sense of smell and I couldn't make any meaningful distinctions. I used these samples through the week and prepared them for my morning espresso. My typical morning coffee includes a double espresso and a two-shot 10 oz latte. So, this week I prepared two double shots of espresso - one from each sample. I used half of each double for the taste test, and then combined the remaining for my latte. The results for the week were consistent - as noted above.

I've read a couple of comments above about the aroma, and it's hard to emphasis how strong the aroma is. Despite dulled senses from my cold, I could smell the coffee through the unopened box. I set the mail for the day in my office and a couple of times walked back in and - "what's that smell? - Oh, I bet's that's the coffee samples."

The roast smell and flavor is dominant in both samples. Neither sample was very nuanced or bright - although I could detect a small difference between the two.

Thanks again for sharing your coffee and letting us learn along with you.

John
Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
 
coffeeroastersclub
Top  #245 Print Post
Posted on 02/16/2013 11:03 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:

Thanks, Len, and don't forget, I'll need your 1-10 scale for dry aroma, wet aroma, body, and flavor.

Dan


#7
Dry aroma: 7
wet aroma: 6
body: 5
flavor: 5

The above was with a Clever. I will be going into the other batch #12 starting tomorrow.

Len
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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coffeeroastersclub
Top  #246 Print Post
Posted on 02/19/2013 6:10 PM
#12 (I left beans in freezer until yesterday and did the test today on this batch)

Dry aroma: 8
wet aroma: 8
body: 6
flavor: 8

The above was with also with a Clever.

Len
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." ~Abraham Lincoln
 
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Lawnmowerman
Top  #247 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2013 1:25 AM
The 12th. 8days from postmark. Tried cowboy coffee this time. My scores for sample4: aroma dry8. Aroma wet6. Body4. Flavor8. Sample10: aroma dry2 aroma wet5 body7 flavor6. Wifes scores: sample 4 aroma dry8 aroma wet 8 body7 flavor8. Sample10: aroma dry3 aroma wet5 body7 flavor7. The 15th: cowboy coffee again. Sample 4: aroma dry4 aroma wet4 body6 flavor7. Sample10: aroma dry2 aroma wet3 body3 flavor2. The 18th: sample 4 only. Drip brew. Final. This is starting to taste like dark roast. Aroma dry 2 aroma wet 2 flavor 2 body 2. The 19th: sample10 only. Cowboy coffee. Final. Mmm. Aroma dry 2 aroma wet 2 body 6 flavor 6. These coffees have both been up and down as they matured. Overall I liked 10 better. My wife ljked 4 better.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
 
Dan
Top  #248 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2013 10:26 AM
Here are the results from the cupping. All told, the "population" was n=13. Not very big, but a good beginning. A special shoutout to LawnMowerMan who did multiple cuppings and enlisted his DW and neighbor, too.

The coffee was Sweet Marias' Brazil Fazenda do Sertao Catuai. Here's the averages from our flame roasted (FR), sample roasted (SR) cuppings and SM's results, too.

FR SR SM
Dry Aroma 6.2 4.6 8.3
Wet Aroma 5.5 5.8 8.4
Body 5.7 6.9 8.5
Flavor 6.7 7.2 8.5

The only two factors statistically significant were dry aroma and body. Aroma in favor of the flame roaster (p=.04), and body in favor of the sample roaster (p=.01). Everything else was all over the place, so we can't trust those results. Consequently, we don't yet know if flame roasting does make for better coffee. One thing I do know is that it makes VERY aromatic coffee. You can smell it through two Ziploc freezer bags! At work, non-coffee drinkers want to taste it because it smells so good!

The big problem I had with preparing these roasts was getting two roasters to produce the same profile. I started by trying to get the sample roaster to match the flame roaster's quick roast, but failed. Too bad, that would have made a better test. Since I was running out of beans and patience, I then decided to make the flame roaster match the sample roaster's profile. Big mistake. Any scientist would now that I just reversed the test with the control.

When the weather warms, I want to repeat this, but start with putting the flame roaster's best foot forward and get the sample roaster to match its profile. I'll have to go manual, and will probably go through a lot of coffee to get there. But hey, its a hobby, right?

If anyone has ideas to to make a better test let me know.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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yamhill
Top  #249 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2013 11:54 AM
Dan,

Which samples were which? Mine were labeled 14 and 16.

I was surprised by the strength of the aroma from the box, and I wonder if the packaging influenced the test. If I can smell it through the box and through the plastic bag, the "other" coffee will certainly pick up some of this aroma.

John
Quest M3 w/ Artisan via ESP32 emulating TC4. Previous roasters include: IMEX digirosto 1500, various popcorn popper roasters, and Behmor. Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano; previous espresso PIDed Rancilio Silvia. Also Chemex, Hario, and Melitta drip; Cory and Yama vacuum/siphon; bodum French press; aeropress; Mazzer Major, Hario mini, and PeDe Dienes grinders.
 
Dan
Top  #250 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2013 12:35 PM
Oh, there's a little code I built in to the numbering. They were random, except that the smaller number of the two everyone received was the flame roasted sample, in your case, #14.

I suppose that could be true about the aroma. Next time I'll isolate them better.
1 pound electric sample roaster, 3 pound direct-flame roaster, both handmade; modified Mazzer Mini grinder, LaSpaziale Vivaldi II automatic espresso machine. When the electricity goes out I make vacpot coffee from beans ground on my Zassenhaus hand grinder, and heat the water with a teakettle on the gas range.
 
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