Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » THE ART OF ROASTING COFFEE » Roasting Profiles
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
Page 1 of 2: 12
 Print Thread
First crack at a Gene Cafe profile
mikepetro
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 12:07 PM
OK, total newbie to roasting here, but well versed in Process Control and PID. I just bought a Gene Caf? and will add a ramping PID controller to it. I will work my butt off until I can figure out some way to measure the bean temp in this thing and control based on that, but until then all I can do is control the air temp and time. I have been reading a ton of information about profiles, both here and elsewhere. My first stab is a simplified version of Black Bear?s ramping procedure as his logic makes a lot of sense to me.

Here is my first theoretical profile. PLEASE poke holes in it, I am here to learn and hopefully shorten my initial learning curve.

I bought 5 pounds of SM?s Costa Rican Caturra de Zarcero to use for my initial learning curve.

I will use a batch size of 270g striving for roughly a ? pound of finished coffee.

? Preheat Step ? 400f for 5 minutes then add the beans, i.e. get the machine nice and hot.
? Drying Step ? 240f for 4 minutes to dry and stabilize the batch at a lower sugar melt point
? Momentum Step ? 480f for 5 minutes (to just before 1C) to build up thermal momentum in the roast
? 1C Step ? 460f for 2 minutes (or 1C whichever comes first) to start slowing down the thermal momentum and hopefully extend the development time
? Development Step ? 450f for 4 minutes or until 2C just begins, whichever comes first
? Cooling step - will pull beans immediately and place in a cullender with a fan drawing air through it.
? Total roast time = 15 minutes

I am shooting for a FC to FC+ roast level
? Is my Development stage too long?
? Is this the right roast level for this bean to draw out the nuances in it?

Am I off base here?
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
ginny
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 12:15 PM
Mike,

you should grab some of the Gene Cafe profiles from out download section.
-g
Grin
 
mikepetro
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 12:41 PM
Thanks Ginny, didnt even realize that existed.
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
Army Coffee
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 2:30 PM

Quote

mikepetro wrote:

I will use a batch size of 270g striving for roughly a ? pound of finished coffee.

? Preheat Step ? 400f for 5 minutes then add the beans, i.e. get the machine nice and hot.
? Drying Step ? 240f for 4 minutes to dry and stabilize the batch at a lower sugar melt point
? Momentum Step ? 480f for 5 minutes (to just before 1C) to build up thermal momentum in the roast
? 1C Step ? 460f for 2 minutes (or 1C whichever comes first) to start slowing down the thermal momentum and hopefully extend the development time
? Development Step ? 450f for 4 minutes or until 2C just begins, whichever comes first
? Cooling step - will pull beans immediately and place in a cullender with a fan drawing air through it.
? Total roast time = 15 minutes

I am shooting for a FC to FC+ roast level
? Is my Development stage too long?
? Is this the right roast level for this bean to draw out the nuances in it?

Am I off base here?


The simple answer to the question of if the Roast Level is right is strictly up to you. Taste your roast after 24 hours of rest, then 48 hours, then 72...see if you notice a difference. I have been led astray my whole life in thinking that I liked darker roasts. I am finding now that Full City is great, but City+ tends to bring out the origin of the coffee and where I truly enjoy the most.

I love my Gene Cafe and will tell you that I have managed to settle on a profile that works well for my GC. Every one of them runs a bit different and though I have not purchased a Variac yet, my Kill a Watt tells me the power in my house stays between 119 and 121 thoughout my whole roast. I have yet to get my roast down to 15 minutes. My typical profile:

Preheat to 400, then dump in the beans and warm them up at 350 for 4:00

I let the Gene Cafe Ramp it up to 482 until first crasck and that is usually around 11:30 to 12:00.

Once I hear First Crack, I let it stay on 482 for 40 sec and then turn it down to 456 until I get to my desired roast

Color, smell, chaff all weigh in to when I decide to pull the roast. Typically I pull the batch as soon as I hear 2nd Crack start, but some beans recommend a lighter roast and I pull it before. Second Crack seems to happen around the 16:30 to 17:00.

I always emergency Stop and Dump my Beans onto a Pan that sits on the Back of a Fan!

I am not sure why my GC cannot achieve Second Crack below 16:30 to 17:00. Especially when everyone else seems to be achieving it around 15 minutes

Looking forward to hearing more about your Gene Cafe exploits! Hope my comments generate some thought and discussion.

Drew
:trink25:
Edited by Army Coffee on 02/26/2012 2:32 PM
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
mikepetro
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 2:45 PM

Quote

Once I hear First Crack, I let it stay on 482 for 40 sec and then turn it down to 456 until I get to my desired roast


Thanks Drew,

Why 456, is there any method to that number, or just something you arrived at by trial and error?
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
gene
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 2:59 PM
Further to what Drew is saying, lets say you purchase a lot of your greens from Sweet Marias as I used to do. They have one of the best sites around for recommending proper roasts for a particular bean.
There are not many beans Tom recommends into second crack. To taste the nuances properly a lot of his roasts should not go past C+.
Really good advice from Drew. Have found out from experience that , to really enjoy the roasts from the Gene Cafe, to taste all the bean offers, have learned to carefully follow experts opinion as to best roast profile. Past second crack usually means chocolates only and no fruits or nuttiness.

Watch out Mike, I'm very hot to plagiarize from you!
I may send my Thermapen back and get one more similar to yours. On the other hand only saw this one model on their website.
Thanks guys.
g
 
Army Coffee
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 3:35 PM
I have been told that second crack happens when the Bean is around 440-450 so I keep the profile at 456 to ensure I don't stall the Roast.

Again, all my roasts have been wonderful using this profile. If I am going to tweek it any, I may increase the time I keep it at Max after 1st Crack starts. keeping it on max for 30-40 seconds seems to work well.

Gene: Where you get your beans now???

Hope this helps
Edited by Army Coffee on 02/26/2012 3:36 PM
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
mikepetro
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 02/26/2012 3:43 PM

Quote

Watch out Mike, I'm very hot to plagiarize from you!
I may send my Thermapen back and get one more similar to yours. On the other hand only saw this one model on their website.

Anything I post here is free for anyone to use, I will not be offended. In fact I am glad to contribute what I can.

As for the Thermapen, the model I have is no longer available, but this newer model looks even better, in fact I am even tempted to get it. It can track 2 temps at the same time and still uses the common miniature Type K thermocouple connections!
http://www.thermo...W8060.html

It doesnt come with a probe but I wouldnt go for one of their "kits", you can get the Thermocouple probes a lot cheaper and/or better suited elsewhere. Like Here: http://www.omega....uples.html
Just make sure you get a "Type K". Generally, the thinner the diameter the faster the response, but also more fragile. Be sure to order a "miniature Type K male connector" if the probe you select has bare wires.
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
gene
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 02/27/2012 6:35 PM
Drew:
I live an hour from Abington VA the home od Zazzy Z's Espresso(and approx. 5 hours from Mike in Martinsville). Zazzy's do their own roasting and supply area shops. This past year got to know Ollie really well since he is passionate about roasting and he lets me have greens in $5.50 range. I was paying him $4.00 til the recent uptick in coffee prices. Really lucky because I can pick from his stockroom.
At the moment have a great blend: Malaya Mapanga at C+ and Eth Harrar Deep Blue at FC+ roasted to the edge of second Crack.

Looking back in history I an extremely fond of two people that were there for me in Gene Cafe profiling. First Eddie Dove and last few years John Despres. Over a thousand roasts and I'm happy with every one except roast #1 but I'm always tweaking and probing.
Mike, just heard back from Christine re Thermapen. The dual probe I ordered this AM backordered until mid-March.
Good advice re the K probe, I'm all over it , much oblidged. In fact, got the complete kit for $221.00. Kinda steep but I'm kinda serious about GC temperature.
If you get thngs figured out would be interested in purchasing computer profiling necessities from you.
Thanks guys.
g
 
Army Coffee
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 02/27/2012 7:16 PM
Gene;

Not sure if you have a answer to my question about roasting temperatures. My Second Crack always seems to happen around the 16:30 to 17:00 and I am not sure why I cannot achieve it sooner considering others get there around 15 minutes.

Is 17 minutes too long of a Roast? Is this something I should be worried about?

Drew
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
mikepetro
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 02/27/2012 7:18 PM
Hi Gene,

How far are you from Springfield VA? I will be there next month for a few days.

Rest assured I "will" get it figured out, you should see what I did to my Miss Silvia espresso machine. I sent her to Finishing School and turned her into a true Lady..... Just not sure how long the GC will take. The PID part based on ET will be easy, but figuring how to get the BT will be a real challenge, as will the actual profiles till I get the feel of it. I will share whatever I learn with anyone who is interested. The computer and instrumentation parts are all "off the shelf" items, nothing terribly unique. I dont sell anything, but I will gladly point you to where I sourced the stuff from.

Check out Omega.com for your thermocouples, that have many that are quite suitable, and reasonable.
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
John Despres
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 6:56 AM
Drew,

First crack typically occurs at ~454F BT. Environment and so on may vary it a bit.

If you simply want to speed up your roast for experimenting and tasting, there are different ways... One may be to preheat your Gene Cafe and set high temp at 482F, load and let it rip.

I am now of the opinion that a 5M warming stage is of little value in my roaster.

However, be sure to drop your temperature at 1st crack.

John

Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
allenb
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 7:59 AM
John

First crack on my rigs, ever since I can remember is somewhere around 400F.


Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgearhead
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 8:46 AM
First crack BMT = 400F in both of my convection roasters...
Edited by oldgearhead on 02/28/2012 8:47 AM
No oil on my beans...
 
gene
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 10:02 AM
Drew:
If bean is SHB in Sweet Marias description the 17 sounds sudden. If low grown may be in range. My prob is my hero John now says five minute warming phase in his roaster is of no value. I have always warmed for five mintes and down to 442 range 30 seconds after first crack.
I'm going to no warming phase immediately on next roast and the thousand roast logs I have meticulously cataloged can go in trash. Gotta blame John...Ha

My next roast will be prewarm empty to 300, dump beans in, then set to 471-482 for 30 sec after first Crack. Don't want to rush to second C.
I'll set to 442 and make sure I stay out of second crack. If Starbucks is your thing you'll hear second C before 4 min generally.

Mike, We sometimes travel to exit 143 of I-95(Stafford) to babysit our grandkids. Also to Blackstone for another. Always out 460. Hope to see you sometime.
We'll be in Stafford to babysit in April. I spend most of my time from DC to Fredricksburg sampling different espressos and doing 6 mile hikes at Quantico near FBI training headquarters. My son goes to Afg in a few weeks. As an Army colonel still have to keep him inspired....(Google "Operation Odin" for his responsibility)

Mike I assume you have a thermocouple? What features am I looking for?
g
 
Army Coffee
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 6:29 PM
Gene;

Son is a Army COL heading to AFG? What unit is he with? This may be a real small world...

Drew
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
John Despres
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 6:40 PM

Quote

allenb wrote:
John

First crack on my rigs, ever since I can remember is somewhere around 400F.


Allen


Why, yes it is... Same as on mine and pretty much everyone else's.

ARGH!!!:@

I meant to say second crack is at ~454F.


Grrr. That's embarrassing...

John
Edited by John Despres on 02/28/2012 6:40 PM
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
John Despres
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 6:49 PM
Gene, don't blame me. But I certainly hope you have fun trying something new!

See, my GC is slow. I've come to realize the beans reach that same temp in about five minutes anyway. The beans lag behind by as much as 55 - 80 degrees F. If you have complete logs, look at the drum temp that first crack occurs at - it could be anywhere from 455F to 482F. However, based on what we really know, bean temp is about 400F for first crack. We've learned this from folk with a bean probe; something we can't use in this roaster.

I have a graph in my logs and the curve is the same, but a bit tighter and that picture showed me I might want to try something else. So I did and the coffee is better.
Leme know what you think.

John
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
mikepetro
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 8:09 PM

Quote

Mike I assume you have a thermocouple? What features am I looking for?


I use Type K for everything, it just became easy to standardize on that for all my temp needs.

As for style of thermocouple, it depends on what you are doing with it. For my espresso machine I used a bare wire junction under a screw. For my SCACE device I used a 1/16th diameter probe with a swagelok fitting for the faster response. For going in the GC I will use a 1/8th inch probe and bend it myself to fit the space.

Other options include the sheath. Depends on your needs but braided SS has served me well. There are all shapes of tips too. Some insertion probes have a very sharp thin tip, these are great for meat.

So I guess my question to you is just exactly what do you want to use it for? I can zero in better......
Mike Petro
Martinsville, VA
--------------------------------
Lady Silvia, Stepless Rocky, Gene Cafe
http://mikepetro.org/coffee/
 
gene
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 02/28/2012 8:55 PM
When I ask him that question Drew he just says Google Odin that he can't tell me. He is still putting his unit together...Leaves with a few of his men for 14 days near Kandahar, then back over here and back over there this spring....around 1100 men....This is a new approach by the army as answer to IED's. Googling this really opens my eyes as to the power of computers in modern warfare. And IED's are now not the threat they were as a result of TaskfrceOdin.

Can't wait to log using new profile approach John, it will be fun experimenting-We'll compare notes.

Mike: I won't make any moves until I see your bill of materials. From where to purchase a Scace and the whole explanation as to how to integrate everything.
There has to be a way to get inside the GC.
Have you talked to Greg about his Scace before purchasing?
I may contact one of my sons brother in laws in Korea for his help re the internals of the GC. If we could have him talk to someone in Gene Cafe engineering?
 
Army Coffee
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 02/29/2012 7:17 PM
Gene;

Pretty sure we either know eachother or know of eachother. I give up Brigade Command in a few months and off to job as of yet unknown.

I know all to personally the threat of IEDs!
Drew
NEC ASPERA TERRENT

North TJ-072 2kg Roaster, Hottop 8828B, Gene Cafe Roaster, Baratza Vario Grinder, Breville SmartGrinder, Behmor Brazen, Cona "D", Bialetti Moka Express, Aero-Press, Quick Mill QM67
 
gene
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 02/29/2012 7:49 PM
Drew:

email me at gecounts at gmail dot com or call 276-393-9999
He leaves Sun from Hood and Mon from Carson.
I know a tiny bit more from Google but have to protect him because he will travel all over country almost weekly- Public forums make me nervous.
He has 4200+ flight hours from rotor(500) to fixed wing(3700)....spent several tours in Korea, 2 in 'Raq and time at Pentagon and now another assignment.
I used to travel every winter to Yuma to spend time with him when he was in charge of Golden Knights....that was their off-season training. That was before I had my prostate op and became addicted to roasting! ha
Have to go to S Caroline in AM til next week.

What is your unit?
Thanks,
gene
 
guido
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 03/04/2013 4:48 PM

Quote

ginny wrote:
you should grab some of the Gene Cafe profiles from out download section.

Hello Ginny,

I've been looking for these, but they do not appear to be at the downloads section of this site. Are they relocated, am I looking in the wrong spot, or?

Thank you very much,
Guido.
 
truk
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 03/05/2013 1:31 PM
Yeah, where are those downloadable profiles. I was hoping that was possible.
Thank the Lord for my family.
 
truk
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 03/05/2013 1:50 PM

Quote

truk wrote:

Yeah, where are those downloadable profiles. I was hoping that was possible.


Never mind, I found them under "Roasting Logs with profiles". They all seem to be for the GC, at least all that I looked at.

Thanks Ginny.
Thank the Lord for my family.
 
Page 1 of 2: 12
Jump to Forum: