Homeroasters - Home Roasting Coffee Community » ALL ABOUT ROASTERS » HotTop Roaster
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
Page 1 of 2: 12
 Print Thread
hottop voltage range
rustic_roaster
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 04/19/2013 12:51 PM
I did my first two batches of coffee yesterday with my hottop P, both 8oz loads roasted outside in the middle of the day(70s).

The first run was 8oz of sumatran in auto mode for the default 18min time. First crack happened at less than 30 sec left. Added 3 min. and I think first crack had just ended. I did wait until 200 degree before adding the beans which used up some time too.

I let the roaster cool for a while and did a second batch of nicaragua. I added 3 min. up front, the preheat was short as the temp was like 140 when it started. I dropped the beans when it beeped this time. 3:30 left when first crack started. About 20sec left when it ended, I added three minutes but never reached second crack. The temp peaked at 415 then dropped back to 410 about 90 sec left.

I checked the line voltage before I started roasting and it was 120V, I did not check while it was running. I used a three way adapter this morning and measured 114.7 while it was in preheat. Should that be OK, anyone care to venture an acceptable range?

I know the fan will draw a little more power, but is the preheat good enough check voltage drop?

I have a killawatt on order and it is suppose to come today so I will be able check it easier while running the next time I do an actual roast.
 
Randy G
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 04/19/2013 3:13 PM
114 should be just fine. I use to have 120 and after a local electrical storm it is now 110-111 and the Hottop still seems to be working OK. I do not presently have roast telemetry so cannot give more detailed info than that.Early Hottops were more sensitive to voltage and there was a time when the heating elements were supplied in a wider specification/production-tolerance range than the factory designated. But that all was many years ago and anything produced in the last 5-6 years (or more) should be fine.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
rustic_roaster
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 04/19/2013 6:06 PM
I got my killiwatt and did some testing. The power during preheat is directly proportional to the line voltage, so this looks pre-regulated.

The socket I used yesterday was 114.7V and 650W during preheat.
I found a socket that was almost 119V and was 710W, but was not a good place to roast.
Found a usable socket with 117.7V which gave 690W.

Gave the nicaragua another try with 117.7V socket, dropping at the prompt with 21minutes on the clock. A little better, added three minutes when the 21 minutes expired and got what I believe was the first few crackles of second crack with about 2 min to spare. Beans look a little darker but not much different from yesterday.
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 04/19/2013 8:49 PM

Quote

Randy G wrote:

114 should be just fine. I use to have 120 and after a local electrical storm it is now 110-111 and the Hottop still seems to be working OK. I do not presently have roast telemetry so cannot give more detailed info than that.Early Hottops were more sensitive to voltage and there was a time when the heating elements were supplied in a wider specification/production-tolerance range than the factory designated. But that all was many years ago and anything produced in the last 5-6 years (or more) should be fine.

Randy,
Your time frame matches the introduction of the 8828B/8828P. I Looked at the HT website and only see two type of main boards, the one in my unit looks like the latest type. Seem like it should not be so sensitive.

Has anyone out there with a 8828P or 8828B ever looked at the power usage with a killiwatt and observed similar results?
 
Barrie
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 12:18 AM
I have one of the new Bs and it may drop a volt when running (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Randy G
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 9:23 AM
I am quite familiar with the Hottop boards currently available *1. Are you using a "B" or a "P"?


*1 - They are a client and I wrote the owners manual as well as created the entire Hottop USA website. ThumbsUp

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
rustic_roaster
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 10:36 AM

Quote

Randy G wrote:

I am quite familiar with the Hottop boards currently available *1. Are you using a "B" or a "P"?


*1 - They are a client and I wrote the owners manual as well as created the entire Hottop USA website. ThumbsUp


Randy,
I am using a P. I opened the question regarding the killiwat to the B as well as it looks like the main board is the same.

I seen only two types of replacement boards, are you saying there are multiple revisions of the 8828P main boards and some did not regulate the power?

If you did the manuals do you know what the "750W of roasting power" means in the information sheet, is that total power or just the heating element?
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 10:54 AM

Quote

Barrie wrote:

I have one of the new Bs and it may drop a volt when running (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).

Thanks Barrie, Sounds like you have a good low impedance path back to the electrical panel if your only dropping a volt.

My question is really regarding the power used by the roaster with regard to the voltage. In my case the power usage goes down when the voltage goes down. If it was regulated I would expect the power to stay more consistent regardless of the voltage. If you look at the current usage I would expect the current to increase when the line voltage decreases.

I am assuming during the pre-heat stage the element is run at full power, but I may be wrong. Curious what power other see during this stage, trying to figure out if my unit is running normal or there is something up.
 
Randy G
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 7:14 PM
All the "P" are using a binary switch to control the heating element. With the "B" you may see a range of voltage as that control board uses a pulse-width modulation to control the heating element. All models energize the heating element through a solid state relay on the main board.

For like models (P and B, B-2 and P-2, P-2K and B-2k) the main boards will be the same. The 2's and 2K's may also be the same but I am not sure. The main changes all came on the control panels, and those are generally interchangeable between like model pairs.

The "-2" models added the emergency eject manual button at the back cover, and the "2K" models went from the button thermostat to the "K" thermocouple thermostat.

Yes, during preheat all models are sending 100% power to the heating element.

Confused yet? Shock

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
ginny
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 8:35 PM
rustic,

are you using a receptacle that has several other receptacles on it that are or could be in use with other loads?

I have never not been able to go into 2nd crack and burn the beans if I wanted or take the roaster to max temp if I wanted.

I did discover that I preferred to dump the beans at 300 or more.

ginny

I roast 90% of the time inside, on top of my gas stove with it's mega exhaust
fan above; when building I had my fellow install a separate circuit there next to the others so I had a dedicated receptacle for my roasters and other types of appliances that cycle while in use. I remember in Oregon having trouble with my 1st Hot Top because of the loads on some circuits around the ranch.
Edited by ginny on 04/20/2013 8:42 PM
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 10:03 PM

Quote

Randy G wrote:

All the "P" are using a binary switch to control the heating element. With the "B" you may see a range of voltage as that control board uses a pulse-width modulation to control the heating element. All models energize the heating element through a solid state relay on the main board.

For like models (P and B, B-2 and P-2, P-2K and B-2k) the main boards will be the same. The 2's and 2K's may also be the same but I am not sure. The main changes all came on the control panels, and those are generally interchangeable between like model pairs.

The "-2" models added the emergency eject manual button at the back cover, and the "2K" models went from the button thermostat to the "K" thermocouple thermostat.

Yes, during preheat all models are sending 100% power to the heating element.

Confused yet? Shock

yes, which one regulated the voltage?
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 04/20/2013 11:19 PM

Quote

ginny wrote:

rustic,

are you using a receptacle that has several other receptacles on it that are or could be in use with other loads?

I have never not been able to go into 2nd crack and burn the beans if I wanted or take the roaster to max temp if I wanted.

I did discover that I preferred to dump the beans at 300 or more.

ginny

I roast 90% of the time inside, on top of my gas stove with it's mega exhaust
fan above; when building I had my fellow install a separate circuit there next to the others so I had a dedicated receptacle for my roasters and other types of appliances that cycle while in use. I remember in Oregon having trouble with my 1st Hot Top because of the loads on some circuits around the ranch.


The first socket I used is a ways from the electrical panel and is outside on the deck. Not sure what else is on the circuit I dont know but it was 120V before I started. As I did not monitor the voltage or power during the roast I really do not know what was happening on the first two roasts. It did look like having a couple extra volts helped out. Looking at the two roasts, I would guess the first time it was just about ready to enter second crack when time ran out.

I got tired of watching the beans spin and started taking notes right about 300 degrees, there was 10min left on the clock. I dropped beans at 165 or whenever it prompted, so I would guess it would have more time left if allow to climb there empty.

How much time would be left when you hit 300 degrees, was that from a cold start?
 
ginny
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 12:09 PM
rustic:

I do not remember what/how much time was left but my guess would be
maybe 2 or 3 minutes, if first crack was about 396. not long after I would need to add time if I wanted to go well into second crack.

I would usually pull the plug and eject the beans by 410/420 depending on when I dropped them into the hopper. and what I wanted from my roast.

the ambient temp in the room, the overall temp of the roaster would all add to the equation. remember I had an exhaust fan on 6 pulling every ounce of smoke so that in itself cooled the roaster.

it is somewhat the same for all of us but depending on your particular conditions all of that changes.

the biggest issue I have heard about from roaster with voltage drops is their electrical system.

-ginny


party
 
Randy G
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 1:19 PM
Comparing one Hottop roaster at some specific temperature or time remaining at some crack point to another Hottop (even the same model) is not terribly valuable. Unless they are running the same voltage AND the same beans and bean mass at the same ambient temperature. There have been changes to the programming even within a specific model. Example: within the last year(?) or so there was an increase in the maximum temperature safety ejection point, from 428 to 435 I think. The details are not important. it only matters if you can get the roast you like at your location with your roaster.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
ginny
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 1:50 PM

Quote

it only matters if you can get the roast you like at your location with your roaster.


Randy:

well said, that is a simple fact.

-g

rockon
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 1:59 PM

Quote

ginny wrote:

rustic:

I do not remember what/how much time was left but my guess would be
maybe 2 or 3 minutes, if first crack was about 396. not long after I would need to add time if I wanted to go well into second crack.



-ginny


party


I guess you mean 2 to 3 minutes left when you dumped the beans not when it was 300 degrees?

I ran it empty at 118V and there was 17min on the clock when it hit 300 degrees. That should be enough time, I will try that next time.

I also checked to see if I could cheat and restarted it after the 5min cool down and it looked like it was trying to cool the roaster by running the fan on high.

stan
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 2:29 PM
So I sent an email yesterday to Hottop and was surprise to get an almost immediate response on a sunday. I asked it the voltage inputs and powers numbers I measures were normal and the response from Michael was that they were normal.

Good news my roaster is working correctly, bad news is that would mean the hottop does not regulate the voltage to the heater. Well it might regulate it for higher voltages, but I cant confirm that.
 
ginny
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 3:17 PM
NO, that is not what I mean.

I misread your question.

I have no idea what was left when the roaster hit 300, if I dumped the beans
the roaster dropped in temp about 50 degrees, a guess,

I thought you said 396, please do not ask how I got that from 300 but i did.

I roast mostly by site, smell and feel plus I know my machines.


ginny

party
Edited by ginny on 04/22/2013 4:18 PM
 
Randy G
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 5:44 PM
I think it is a matter of nomenclature here, and the fact that I was an art major. As far as I can tell, the Hottop does not actually REGULATE the power to the heating element. The power is switched through a solid state relay (SSR) on the "Main Board." I was told that there were changes, years ago, to help it roast better when voltage was low. I think anything from about 110 (or 112) up to 120 will work just fine. Will my roaster on 120 have potential to roast a bit faster than yours at 112? Most likely. Will it roast acceptably well at 112? Certainly. What else can you do? Drop in at a higher temperature than the machine tells you to (dropping in before the signal is NOT a good idea). Use a smaller (or larger) bean mass.

And, Ginny.. the party will be at my house in three or four months when the 1Kg Hottop arrives here. Candles lit- and in the window!

cross fingers

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
ginny
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 5:57 PM
WOW, I will be there...

love to see it in action.

ginny
 
Barrie
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 7:07 PM
Now, let's see. How long does it take to get to the Chico area from the SF Peninsula? Roflmao
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
ginny
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 8:04 PM
Barrie:
it's right up the road from Menlo...

-g

cool
 
rustic_roaster
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 8:36 PM
Randy,

I dont know if it is a matter nomenclature or not but I am pretty sure it is a matter of jumping to conclusions when I read "Early Hottops were more sensitive to voltage " and assumed that meant the heater voltage was now regulated. Wishful thinking on my part.
 
Barrie
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 11:20 PM

Quote

rustic_roaster wrote:

Randy,

I dont know if it is a matter nomenclature or not but I am pretty sure it is a matter of jumping to conclusions when I read "Early Hottops were more sensitive to voltage " and assumed that meant the heater voltage was now regulated. Wishful thinking on my part.


The company's US website has a table comparing the two current "2K" models. In the row labelled "not sensitive to voltage, no variac needed" both are labelled "Yes." I think Randy G. wrote that?
Barrie (San Diego, CA)
"So much to learn, so little time."
Hottop 2K+., Artisan, Jura Capresso ENA 3 (i.e. espresso).
 
Randy G
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 04/22/2013 11:55 PM

Quote

The company's US website has a table comparing the two current "2K" models. In the row labelled "not sensitive to voltage, no variac needed" both are labelled "Yes." I think Randy G. wrote that?


I have been maintaining the Hottop UA website for some 8 years now I think - can't even remember when I started that. But some of the content comes from the company, and I think that was one of the tidbits.

If we look at it logically, it would be difficult to get all the circuitry to raise the voltage going into the Hottop (it would be large and expensive to do so). Since the current models (all "B" and "P" models) allow the user to run the heating element at 100%, any sort of voltage compensation should not be necessary.

A bunch of years ago I was told that the factory received a group of heating elements that were not as closely spec'd as they had required and those may have been the source of the whole voltage thing. But that was for long ago it does no longer matter.

Me? I currently have two disassembled Hottops on my workbench. Both are receiving the HTC + TC4C installations with my own custom thermocouples- one machine is mine and one for a customer. I will try to take photos along the way. I will have a template for thermocouple location available as soon as I verify its accuracy. But this is a great way to have complete control over the Hottops.

Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
 
Web
Page 1 of 2: 12
Jump to Forum: