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USRC Sample Roaster
boar_d_laze
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 11/06/2013 8:28 PM
Cut to the chase -- it's green.

After a long wait, many delays, an illness as annoying as it was serious, the wrong propane hookup, etc., etc., etc., I finally got my Sample Roaster up and running on Monday.

Unfortunately, Monday afternoon and evening were booked and I was unable to start roasting.

Since then, I've done five roasts. Three with "sweepings" (low quality, free beans); and two with real beans -- my usual "Basic Blend" of three Central shbs.

The USRC (it needs a nick-name) is very different from the other roasters I've used in the past, in that it is both more powerful and controllable. Gas flow and air flow are meaningful.

Gas flow requires careful attention to fine control or the roaster will go too fast. The first sweepings roast hit second crack in about six minutes, with gas pressure dialed down to 3 in of water, out of about 9 in possible.

The first roast with real beans went from below 1" to around 3", taking about 13 minutes to get to C+, with the drying phase and finishing phase after onset of 1stC both slightly slowed (4min, each).

The second roast, went to FC in about 15minutes, with gas pressure ranging from below 1" to 2.5". On the basis of advice from a friend with the same roaster, I dosed the second roast 25F lower than the first, at around 350F.Appearance and aroma of this roast were very good.

Sounds are easy to detect. Aromas, though are not quite as present as they were in my Amazon or HT. The USRC is tighter and has a more effective than either of those; perhaps that why.

I'm getting temps from controller (BT), an analog thermometer mounted on the manifold (exhaust temp); and two thermoucoples reportingt to a dataloger with USB to PC capabilities -- one thermocouple for BT mounted next to the other BT probe, and another for exhaust temp mounted on the other side of the manifold from the dial thermometer.

So far, only the bean temps -- which are very similar -- are really useful. The exhaust temp thermocouple needs -- at least -- some offset before readings start making sense; while the analog ET probe is just too slow.

Because of my unfamiliarity with gas roasters in general, and this one in particular, roasting is still confusing and I'm not able to make sense of all the available information, much less take complete and useful notes. I'm going to consider everything "practice," and won't begin to number my roasts in my hand-written log, and will also refrain from "scoping" with Artisan until my anxiety and inexperience decouple, and things start to slow down and make more sense.

I'm taking a roasting class on the 12th from Mike Perry and will try to establish basic competence with the equipment by then. Gonna have to burn through some beans to do it. Wish I had more sweepings.

If you're interested in this pilgrim's progress, I'll blog in more detail at HB.

Loving the roaster,
BDL

PS. If you or anyone you know in SoCal is interested in the 1kg Dalian Amazon, I'm selling it for $1200, half what I paid for it, will include (for free) a 20A Variac, and a roasting class at your site. Buyer pick up, only.
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
Ringo
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 11/07/2013 5:05 AM
Congratulations on the new roaster. I remember when I first started running my drum and having too much information to process and too many adjustments. To give you a starting place this is what I do. Set the air as low as you can but still pull out the chaf. I only look at bean temp and do a temp check every 30 seconds. Try to keep the different phases of roasting around even, and find a charge temp that will give you a turn around of around 160 deg f. Try to run the same charge size untill you are comfortable with the adjustment. After 1st crack I use the difference between the bt bad the et to guage how fast the roaster will run. On my roaster when I hit 1st crack I will cut the gas way back environmental temp will drop but bean temp will continue to clime. So run like this untill you are comfortable them do two test roast and only change one thing, cup the coffees. Maybe a 2 min development time instead of o 2.5 min time, what did that do? its a long path to go the best coffee but you will get really good coffee early. Often when i am trying two different roast profiles I will give people a bag of each marked a and b and ask them to tell me the difference. Have fun and keep good records.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 11/07/2013 10:18 AM
Ringo,

All of your advice is GOLD.

Just to clarify. This isn't my first drum. I've done over half a ton in the past in three different electrics -- Behmor, HotTop and Dalian Amazon. On the other hand, it is my first gas roaster, and also -- by far -- the most powerful and responsive roaster I've ever used.

For sure, it doesn't hurt to rehear and reconsider the basics.

Your gas specific advice is much appreciated and will be put to the test beginning today. For instance, I'll try the specific suggestion of using a charge temp which results in a 160F this morning. Charging at 375 -- suggested by one of the engineers at USRC -- and 360 resulted in turns right around 200. A friend using the same roaster, recommended 325, which should get me close to 160F.

Extending the interval between 1st and 2d has been less of a problem.

Unlike my previous roasters, establishing a 13 - 15min profile with slightly extended drying and slightly extended interval between onset of cracks has been an exercise in controlling poser.

During the drying phase (from dose on), and during the interval between cracks, I'm running very low gas pressures -- about as low as the machine will go and stay lit. About 1" of water. Not a problem, just mentioning it.

The roast development phase from EOD (light cinnamon) to onset of 1st (light American) are also very conservative. About 2.5" of water.

I'm currently shooting for a 13 - 15min profile to FC. I chose 400g as the dose, but will change it to 360g to work better with our aging/storage setup and and actual home, weekly usage.

Thanks. You gave me a lot to think about and use.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze on 11/07/2013 10:30 AM
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
snwcmpr
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 11/07/2013 4:58 PM
Great read.

Quote

Ringo said:
and find a charge temp that will give you a turn around of around 160 deg f

What does 'turn around' mean?

Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
Ringo
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 11/07/2013 8:33 PM
You preheat a drum roaster to say 320 degs and drop in beans that at say 70 deg. Over the first 1 1/2 min the beans soak up the heat and the temp drops. A little over a min the temp stops dropping and starts going up, this is the turn around. I believe it only is an indication that you have stated the roaster with the right amount of btu's and making repeatable roasting easier.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
snwcmpr
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 7:20 AM
Thank you.
So, it is ET that is dropping then rising.(?)
That would seem specific to a drum rather than air roaster.

That roaster looks nice.
Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 10:43 AM

Quote

snwcmpr wrote:

Thank you.
So, it is ET that is dropping then rising.(?) That would seem specific to a drum rather than air roaster.
Here, "probe readout" is the operative concept. You have to remember that before charging the roaster the BT probe reads ET.

When the roaster is charged the beans start soaking up energy, and that lowers ET (provided that you're not pumping a lot of heat into the system). But at charge, the BT probe goes from reading hot air to reading cold beans, so the drop in reading will be significant. But, due to lag, the temp reading doesn't fall all the way down to the beans' realtime room temp.

After a little while -- usually about a minute in a drum roaster -- the beans heat up to the point where the bean mass temperature reading stops falling, and begins to rise. That moment, when the readout stops falling and starts going up is called "the turn."

Of course the reality is that the beans start to warm up as soon as they enter the preheated roaster, and the turn is really a function of the probe changing from ET to BT combined with lag time as it does so, rather than an accurate representation of what's really going on inside the roaster. Nevertheless, the turn is a very useful roast milestone. For instance many roastmasters use it as the beginning of drying for timing purposes.

Fluid beds aren't that different in terms of the phenomena, but probe placement issues make temp measurement even more problematic. I can't say whether the turn means as much in a fluid bed because I lack experience with them.

Rest assured though that -- drum or fluid bed -- the laws of thermodynamics remain the same.

BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze on 11/08/2013 10:52 AM
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
snwcmpr
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 10:47 AM
All of these replies are great information. Much to think about.
Ken in NC
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
ginny
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 11:57 AM
Sweet roaster BDL...

perhaps you should post your other roater in the Java Trading Co.

might get some hits...

-g

ThumbsUp
 
ciel-007
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 12:18 PM

Quote

Ringo wrote:

... find a charge temp that will give you a turn around of around 160 deg f...



Ringo, that's a really interesting consideration.
The Turn Around Temp (TAT) of the bean mass in my Hottop is lower than 160F at present. Have you had the chance to experiment with different TATs?
More specifically, do you recall the impact of the TAT on the flavor in your cup when TAT was "below 160F" versus "higher than 160F"?
ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
ciel-007
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 12:35 PM

Quote

boar_d_laze wrote:

... this isn't my first drum. I've done over half a ton in the past in three different electrics -- Behmor, HotTop and Dalian Amazon...




BDL, I see that Dalian Amazon has a 1kg roaster, which seems to be an attractive unit. Would it be possible for you to post (in a separate HRO thread) about your roasting experiences with the Dalian Amazon? I would be especially interested to hear how the 3 roasters compare.
ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
Ringo
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 12:58 PM

Quote

ciel-007 wrote:

[quote]Ringo wrote:

... find a charge temp that will give you a turn around of around 160 deg f...



Ringo, that's a really interesting consideration.
The Turn Around Temp (TAT) of the bean mass in my Hottop is lower than 160F at present. Have you had the chance to experiment with different TATs?
More specifically, do you recall the impact of the TAT on the flavor in your cup when TAT was "below 160F" versus "higher than 160F"?
ciel[/quote
Yes I have, 160 is the number I was given in a roasting class and it seems to work for me. Its just my opinion but I think you could use any number as the turn around and you would be fine. Just hitting the same one gets you started at the same place. Its easier to hit the drying time you are shooting for if after 1.5 mins you are in the same place. On my roaster I actual drop a small 1 lb at 260 deg and a 5 lb charge at 320 deg. I have a very heavy drum that holds a lot of heat so I drop with a lower setting. I do think that you have to watch for scorching with higher drop temps, If I am running a low grown Brazil I have to use a lower drop temp.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
ciel-007
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 11/08/2013 1:05 PM

Quote

Ringo wrote:

... I have a very heavy drum that holds a lot of heat...



Thanks Ringo, it may not be feasible to seek a 160F TAT in a HT because the drum is relatively light. ciel
Ciel... seeking Heaven in my cup with ................................................................................................................. EXPOBAR Brewtus II - MAZZER Mini E - MAHLK?NIG Vario - GeneCafe - RAF-1 Extreme (Modified B-2 HOTTOP) - BellaTaiwan XJ-101
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 11/15/2013 2:47 PM

Quote

ciel-007 wrote:

BDL, I see that Dalian Amazon has a 1kg roaster, which seems to be an attractive unit. Would it be possible for you to post (in a separate HRO thread) about your roasting experiences with the Dalian Amazon? I would be especially interested to hear how the 3 roasters compare.


Sure, if there's interest. My experiences with the Amazon are pretty well chronicled at HB though.

To make a long story short, the Amazon does what it does well, extremely well -- which is a slow, well-developed and very sweet roast of 300 - 600g -- but lacks the power to do much else. It runs at a nominal 2000W, so needs good, reliable electricity -- something we lack, even though it runs on its own 20A circuit.

The Amazon is very slow to build heat, but can be made to shed it EXTREMELY quickly -- faster than any other roaster I've used. Even with the Sample Roaster's gas flow at "0" (i.e, pilot only). the damper at 100% Roaster, and the fan cranked to Max, the Amazon drops temps significantly faster.

It's a great roaster for the right person, but an exercise in frustration for the wrong one.

What can you say? A HotTop is a HotTop is a HotTop. After a couple of years with mine, and evolving from P to B with probes and real-time readout, I decided I wanted more capacity, better batch roasting capability and more responsiveness. HTs are a well known quantity, and I don't know that I have much to add to the subject.

Otherwise, I thought it might be nice to update this thread little bit.

1. Since posting here last, I've come to a better understanding of how much the Sample Roaster uses contact, compared to convection or radiance -- relative to other roasters.

2. The ET probe tip was repositioned (a nice way of saying "bent") to be far enough away from the manifold walls to stay unaffected by external changes. Since the repositioning, the probe readout is very close to the analog dial, but faster. The ET thermocouple not only provides information useful in a number of ways for profiling, but also supports the hypothesis regarding contact, convection and radiance.

3. The datalogger remains unconnected to roasting software. For a number of reasons I decided to hold of until I had enough facility and practice with the roaster to take accurate, complete and contemporaneous notes. I"m just about there. I also wanted to wait until taking a class -- so as not to let a shiny object confuse me into thinking I know more than I actually do.

4. Took a one day, one-on-one roasting class with Mike Perry at Klatch in Upland. Learned a lot about cupping, wet blending, and some of the subtleties of using a plot to profile. I'd say what I learned about cupping will do me the most good, while gaining a better intellectual understanding of plotting expands the possibilities into nuances I'd never thought of. Howevcer, it was wet blending which really rocked my world.

Also the class increased my understanding of combining gas-flow and air flow to shape the legs of a profile. Plus, had a helluva good time!

BBQ grill

BDL
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
ginny
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 11/15/2013 3:19 PM
BDL,

you going to join the Bean Swap 2013?

ginny

roar
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 11/16/2013 1:20 PM
Ginny,

Consider me joined.

BDL
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
ginny
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 11/17/2013 10:33 AM
hey BDL...

I really appreciate your joining the bean swap, you got the "BIG" roaster.

no pictures of your new baby yet?


ginny


smoking
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 11/21/2013 6:08 PM
BDL
Edited by boar_d_laze on 11/21/2013 6:16 PM
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2013 12:20 PM
Let's try this again.

Ladies and Gentleman, fresh from its tour of the continent, playing before the crowned heads of Europe, and about darn time. Brought to you at great expense to the management.

I give you (drrrrrrrrrumrolllllllllll. TAH DAH.)...

The Jolly Green Roaster.

www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2707_jollygreenroastersideresized.jpg

www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2707_jollygreenroasterfront_resized.jpg
www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2707_jollygreenroastersideresized.jpg

BDL
Edited by JackH on 11/22/2013 2:22 PM
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
RAG
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2013 12:44 PM
So no access to see what is in text url. sounds interesting however
 
Airhan
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2013 1:37 PM
img.pandawhale.com/41314-Brad-Pitt-Seven-whats-in-the-b-AYBg.png
Aaron
"Grind it like it did you some great injustice!"D.L.Clark
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2013 7:56 PM
When I posted the links, they worked.

Apparently something happened and they stopped working. They were subsequently fixed by a moderator and are still not working.

If at first...



BDL




links will not work when posted as they were... gp
Edited by ginny on 11/23/2013 5:25 AM
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
tamarian
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 11/23/2013 5:27 AM
Just for the record, I was able to see the roaster in 3 different posts here, while others couldn't'. I use chrome on Ubuntu.

Maybe because they are hot-linked to HB, and I'm always logged in on HB.

And it is well worth taking a look at, I've seen it when BDL got it, posted on HB
Wa'il. 1 Kg PID'ed gas-fired fluid bed roaster, GS/3MPS, K10F
 
Web
ginny
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 11/23/2013 5:34 AM
some links will work and some will not - I cannot see them and I am using Mac's, PC's with chrome and firefox.

the issue is how HB allows members v. public to see them...

if you cannot post the picture, send it to me at thegster@gmail.com and tell me where you want it and I will post it - as I am receiving multiple emails that the links do not work.

ginny

Quote

And it is well worth taking a look at, I've seen it when BDL got it, posted on HB


HB most likely does not want all of their content reposted all over the place, they want you to become a member and view it there, that is their right as the owner of the content and needs to be respected.
 
az erik
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 03/25/2014 1:26 PM

Quote


4. Took a one day, one-on-one roasting class with Mike Perry at Klatch in Upland. Learned a lot about cupping, wet blending, and some of the subtleties of using a plot to profile. I'd say what I learned about cupping will do me the most good, while gaining a better intellectual understanding of plotting expands the possibilities into nuances I'd never thought of. Howevcer, it was wet blending which really rocked my world.

Also the class increased my understanding of combining gas-flow and air flow to shape the legs of a profile. Plus, had a helluva good time!

BBQ grill

BDL


I really like Mike and had some lengthy chats with Heather while sipping away in the Rancho store. I'm looking forward to going back there soon.

Thanks a lot for your insight on this and the Amazon.
 
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