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Have read all posts of Quest M3
gene
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/2013 9:08 AM
So far this morning. Whew, very enjoyable but posts are machine mod oriented for most part. And if my hero John bought one in November 2012 they must have some substance.

Questions not answered. Here goes:

Relativity, How does the quality of the roasts compare to, say Gene Caf?, KK or other mostly manual roasters.

I like the manual control of the roast the GC affords and realize the Quest would give even more but?

Would have to be a marked difference of taste in the cup before I could justify a purchase.

Thanks folks
 
ginny
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/2013 9:26 AM
Gene:

The quality of the roasts is great and/but it depends on how you roast...

I do not think you can honestly compare roasts from one machine to another in the way you are asking.

Quote

Would have to be a marked difference of taste in the cup before I could justify a purchase.


It is all still a matter of TASTE, personal taste...

the beans and how you like to roast, what does Gene like?



ginny

party
 
gene
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/2013 10:51 AM
Ginny:

I do mostly espresso using Orphan Espresso's modded Pharos grinder using the lever Olympia Cremina for travel or for larger groups the plumbed in La Spaz.

Some AeroPress via OE Lido hand grinder.

Head swelled last fall when young doctoral student that had biked by my home in VA had texted back from California that drinks I served was best coffee in his 3700 mile travels.

So must be doing something right with GC with Eddie Dove and John Dupree's counsel. After 1000+ roasts still log every one to stay true to how that particular terrior should be roasted. eg, Guat Acetenago Gesha says C to FC. To get maximum syrupy sweetness would want to stay closer to C.

Had hoped I was thru experimenting but the Quest does intrigue me.

This scenario reminds me of some advice Chris from Chris Coffee gave me few years ago. Had called to place order for $2000 grinder used in the World Barista Championships at that time. He had the model without frills for $1450. "Gene, if you are looking for a difference in the cup, save your money. You may not notice any difference" He was talking about in relation to something like a manual OE Pharos with commercial burrs for $265.

I have praised him ever since for his brutal honesty.

And I do appreciate you and John and our Home Roasters family,
Thank You
gene
 
ginny
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/2013 7:47 AM
Gene:

Quote

"Gene, if you are looking for a difference in the cup, save your money. You may not notice any difference"


the above is very true, I have a Quest 3, a Hot Top B2K and others and I enjoy each for different reasons.

the Quest and Hot Top are very close in with end result but I roast a particular way so they would be...

the Quest is 100% manual and that is the reason I bought it; to be honest i would buy several more roasters like BDL's beauty but I cannot justify doing that when I have way too many things on my list of things to do...

I can drop beans into the Hot Top at 350 degrees and ignore the roaster but for a few beeps and get a great batch of fresh coffee; I do that at times, push the button and let it roast by itself.

there is no question you would enjoy roasting in the Quest 3 but I doubt that you would notice a big or any difference with the end result.

let us know...

ginny


tiki
 
gene
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/2013 9:16 AM
Have read all of Quest M3 threads, indeed,
How terribly silly of me. Meant to say all 4 pages of present thread re Quest M3.
Of course Ciel's thread covers the comparisons thoroughly.

And your answer really relaxes me. Makes tons of horse sense. Moderators have to sort such posts into sensible separate threads.

I understand people like Chris better. He is willing to miss a sale but darned if he is not going to be upfront with you regardless.
Understand him better knowing he drove down to North Carolina from New York a lot when he was first forming Chris Coffee to solicit roasting advice from Counter Culture. To this day he spouts warm thoughts about the wonderful folks there and their freehearted sharing tho they knew he was destined to become competition.

That is exactly how I feel about our Home Roasters Forum. Despite my ofttimes vague meanderings we have some wonderful free hearted spirits on here that give their all in trying to help anyone and everyone,

Thanks All
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/2013 10:03 AM
The GC is an air/drum hybrid and has a slightly brighter signature than the Quest. You can work around it though. I'm not sure if you can roast indistinguishably from one to the other, but you can certainly impose your own style and come darn close.

In my opinion, the Quest is worth the extra money relative to the Gene for someone who doesn't already have a 250g roaster because it's easier to put tc probes in good locations, because it cools better (although neither does a good job at cooling), and because it batch roasts.

Whether those things or anything else make it worth replacing the Gene with a Quest, or keeping the Gene and adding a Quest to it is another question.

Real-time BT, by allowing an accurate assessment of RoR, allows you control over profiling which you don't otherwise have; that is, you become far less likely to be driven by events. So, IF the choice is limited to the two residential, 250g, electric roasters, Gene or Quest, AND IF it were my choice, THEN my choice would be Quest. But I'm not you.

Ginny has a very good sense about this stuff. Let me agree with her by advising you not to underestimate the importance of appearance, feel, pride of ownership, the pleasure which comes from playing with good toys, and all that good stuff. You're not a business. You'll make a better choice by thinking through the aesthetics than from a cost effectiveness analysis. Get what you want.

BDL
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
John Despres
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/2013 7:12 PM
The major difference between a Gene Cafe and a Quest M3 is the roasters.

The coffee differences, as BDL has pointed out is minimal. True, the Gene produces somewhat brighter coffee as it is part air roaster, but they both produce excellent coffee once you know how to use 'em. I'm getting there...

I bought a Quest to add to my roasting experience and in anticipation of both Gene Cafes finally reaching the point of no more repair. I love the Quest. A lot. I'm still learning how to use it. There's not a lot out there with tips and tricks. I'm making my way. Slowly, but I'm making my way.

If you want one and you're not afraid of building a fleet of roasters, order one up.

Have fun!

JD
Respect the bean.
John Despres
Fresh Roast 8, Gene Cafe, JYTT 1k, Quest M3, Mazzer Mini, Technivorm, various size presses and many more brewers.
 
Web
gene
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/2013 8:48 PM
Nothing like three takes on my thorny problem coming from three directions.

Have been doing a lot of roaster studying past month or so since Tim Skaling left Gene Caf?. And what John says about his two GC's has been on my mind.
I have 1000-1300 roasts on a GC that was purchased from EBay and not in good shape at that time. SOOOOO.

What BDL says about "slightly brighter signature" is exactly what have been studying. That is why a roaster ala Probat would be ideal.
There are exotic roasters out there whose prices are too rich for my blood. Torrefatore, Santoker and the beautiful San Franciscan made in Nevada. Due to price haven't bothered to contact BoldJave re the San Franciscan he purchased.
The Santoker is a gas sample roaster and does from 100grams to 1 pound flawlessly. Actually more than that if desired.
And, from studying the Quest, it seems to have the same type drum.

But, like John, with a batch roaster 227G would meet my needs. With occasional 100G cupping roasts?

I want:
1 Less brighter roasts
2 TC probe capability
3 Possible computer profile printouts
4 Smaller batch sizes, if situation demands

And, compared to the GC, roasts come out immediately, rather than waiting 55 seconds to cool heating element.

Only negative is Quest is 2 and 1/2 GC's pricewise

If you know of a deal please PM me!

HMMMMMMM

Thank You All
 
boar_d_laze
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 11/30/2013 12:04 AM
"Deal" is a relative term.

You can get everything you say you want with a HT. What you don't get with an HT that you do get with a Quest is true back to back batch roasting, and the same degree of control.

Even though the Quest is higher powered than the HT, it's not powerful enough so that the roaster can react to falling behind the desired RoR and make an instantaneous correction. In other words, it's not as powerful as... say... a TJ-067 electric, and certainly not as powerful as a good gas roaster.

The San Franciscan, which I believe comes set up from the factory for BT and ET telemetry, is something over $8K. MY USRC Sample Roaster, set up for real-time BT and ET telemetry, including an Omega 806AU datalogging thermometer, was just over $6K.

"Flawless" is another relative term. "Sample roasting" is too.

For instance, I may be roasting a very small sample (say 100g) to C+, without paying much attention to developing the profile, for the purposes of finding out if I want to buy actual roast quantities of a bean.

But roasting 100g in a 500g roaster for purposes of developing or perfecting a profile isn't quite as straightforward. For one thing a really small bean mass doesn't have the density to give you the same BT readings that a full load would. If you could do that with a 250g charge, you'd be doing pretty well. For another, to do small batches you have to operate the roaster at very low power -- and because it's not easy to get accurate you usually find yourself using the fan (and damper if you have one) far more than you would with a larger charge.

A Probat sample roaster usually doesn't have provision for BT; fan and heat are always at full; and ET (analog dial) is controlled by a damper which directs the air through the tray, through the roaster, or some combination.

Damper only isn't that bad with an underpowered roaster like my old Amazon; but it requires a lot of attention to get consistent samples (say 100g, in 9:30 to C+) with one as powerful as a Probat. The few times I used one, I was all over the map.

BDL
USRC 1lb Roaster, Chemex+Kone, Espro, Various FPs, Royal Siphon Vacuum, Yama Ice Drip Tower, Bunnzilla, La Cimbali M21 Casa, Ceado E92.
CookFoodGood
 
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