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10/03/2022 12:06 PM
HI Michael, go to consumer zone, java trading company and first post is basic rules. PM me with any needed clarifications. Cheers

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Good morning! what would be the best way to post a coffee roaster for sale? Thanks

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Observations on Behmor Behavior
coffeecat
After reading Scott Rao's book I started thinking as I tried to wrap my head around the densely packed information therein.

I needed a little more information about the Behmor. To drop at a higher temperature, I was going to need to pre-heat beyond the two minutes maximum suggested in the manual. What would happen? Would it explode or melt down? Fail to restart? I mean, what???

Here's what I found out. Perhaps these data will be useful. They are subject to correction if your experimentation reveals different observations, but, for what it's worth, check this out.

1. When roasting on <auto> mode, the heating elements cut out at 286?F. Not sure yet what the cut-in temperature is. Just realized I'll need to observe that and report back.

2. When roasting on manual mode-- like <P5>, for instance, the cutout temperature is higher-- 296?F to be exact. At <P4>, <P3>, and <P2> didn't get high enough to cause the elements to cut out.

3. At 1/4# and 1/2# setting, fan comes on at 5 minutes.

4. At 1# setting, fan comes on at 7-1/2 minutes.

5. At <P2>, <P3> and <P4> settings the elements don't seem to radiate at 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively. Instead, they come on at what appears to be 100% for a period of seconds, then de-energize for a period. Here's what that looks like:

<P2> On for 4-5 seconds, Off for 12 seconds.
<P3> On for 8 seconds, Off for 8 seconds.
<P4> On for 12 seconds, Off for 4 seconds.

5. Pre-heating by temperature, rather than time. It's possible to pre-heat to 280?F. The temperature then drifts upward for a bit. After removing and charging the drum and replacing it, actual start temperatures are 240?F to 255?F depending on how efficiently that action is carried out. The 1600 Plus has no issue re-starting for the roast at that pre-charge temperature.

If you decide to pre-heat to 280?, the trick becomes controlling the RoR to 1c such that you don't hit 1c way too high and then experience a reversal of RoR.

This is a bit tricky and requires planning ahead of time, experimenting, and then experimenting some more. Finally, recently I've had some success. Without BT, I'm visualizing total energy in the oven-- thermal masses including beans, and envisioning injecting energy into the system in such manner as to keep it moving upwards at a diminishing rate.

Once the fan comes on, oven temp drops sharply, but fan temp immediately shoots up. Then, the two together, according to my theory, anyway, need to move upward. If we pay attention to the oven temperature only, we will be confused. Once the fan starts, both temperatures need to be considered together.

Using Roastmaster, I plot curves for both at one minute intervals and possibly add intermittent data points when they might prove significant-- dips, rises, 1c start, 1c end, etc. Whatever seems relevant for later evaluation.

I'm no expert, friends, let's be clear-- just an enthusiastic and curious aficionado of good coffee determined to hit as high a level of roasting as possible given the limitations of my understanding and equipment.

I will post results of further experiments here.
 
oldgearhead
Excellent observations!
However,I'm a bit confused about number 5:

"5. At <P2>, <P3> and <P4> settings the elements don't seem to radiate at 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively. Instead, they come on at what appears to be 100% for a period of seconds, then de-energize for a period. Here's what that looks like:

<P2> On for 4-5 seconds, Off for 12 seconds.
<P3> On for 8 seconds, Off for 8 seconds.
<P4> On for 12 seconds, Off for 4 seconds."
....the PWM times stated ARE 25%, 50%,and 75%...
Keep up the good work.
 
coffeecat
OK. So you might expect that, for instance on <P3>, which is noted by Behmor as providing 50% manual heat that the elements would run at 50% of their normal output by reducing power to the elements. They would glow a duller orange, etc.

This is not how the 50% is accomplished in real time, however. Instead, the 50% heating is accomplished by alternate on/off periods that result in a total heat output of 50% compared with <P5> which provides continuous output.

Thus the listed on/off cycles for each setting are my observations of how long the elements are energized and how long they remain off to attain the given percentage of total output.

Hope that's more clear now. :)
 
ramjamming
Great Post. Just got my Behmor 2000AB and found this really informative. Especially regarding #5 and the power duty cycling. I burned at least one manual roast I did last night, and found it very hard to stop the roast from running away on the second.

Quote

coffeecat wrote:

After reading Scott Rao's book I started thinking as I tried to wrap my head around the densely packed information therein.

I needed a little more information about the Behmor. To drop at a higher temperature, I was going to need to pre-heat beyond the two minutes maximum suggested in the manual. What would happen? Would it explode or melt down? Fail to restart? I mean, what???

Here's what I found out. Perhaps these data will be useful. They are subject to correction if your experimentation reveals different observations, but, for what it's worth, check this out.

1. When roasting on <auto> mode, the heating elements cut out at 286?F. Not sure yet what the cut-in temperature is. Just realized I'll need to observe that and report back.

2. When roasting on manual mode-- like <P5>, for instance, the cutout temperature is higher-- 296?F to be exact. At <P4>, <P3>, and <P2> didn't get high enough to cause the elements to cut out.

3. At 1/4# and 1/2# setting, fan comes on at 5 minutes.

4. At 1# setting, fan comes on at 7-1/2 minutes.

5. At <P2>, <P3> and <P4> settings the elements don't seem to radiate at 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively. Instead, they come on at what appears to be 100% for a period of seconds, then de-energize for a period. Here's what that looks like:

<P2> On for 4-5 seconds, Off for 12 seconds.
<P3> On for 8 seconds, Off for 8 seconds.
<P4> On for 12 seconds, Off for 4 seconds.

5. Pre-heating by temperature, rather than time. It's possible to pre-heat to 280?F. The temperature then drifts upward for a bit. After removing and charging the drum and replacing it, actual start temperatures are 240?F to 255?F depending on how efficiently that action is carried out. The 1600 Plus has no issue re-starting for the roast at that pre-charge temperature.

If you decide to pre-heat to 280?, the trick becomes controlling the RoR to 1c such that you don't hit 1c way too high and then experience a reversal of RoR.

This is a bit tricky and requires planning ahead of time, experimenting, and then experimenting some more. Finally, recently I've had some success. Without BT, I'm visualizing total energy in the oven-- thermal masses including beans, and envisioning injecting energy into the system in such manner as to keep it moving upwards at a diminishing rate.

Once the fan comes on, oven temp drops sharply, but fan temp immediately shoots up. Then, the two together, according to my theory, anyway, need to move upward. If we pay attention to the oven temperature only, we will be confused. Once the fan starts, both temperatures need to be considered together.

Using Roastmaster, I plot curves for both at one minute intervals and possibly add intermittent data points when they might prove significant-- dips, rises, 1c start, 1c end, etc. Whatever seems relevant for later evaluation.

I'm no expert, friends, let's be clear-- just an enthusiastic and curious aficionado of good coffee determined to hit as high a level of roasting as possible given the limitations of my understanding and equipment.

I will post results of further experiments here.
 
larryjb

Quote

coffeecat wrote:

After reading Scott Rao's book I started thinking as I tried to wrap my head around the densely packed information therein.

I needed a little more information about the Behmor. To drop at a higher temperature, I was going to need to pre-heat beyond the two minutes maximum suggested in the manual. What would happen? Would it explode or melt down? Fail to restart? I mean, what???

I have the Behmor 2000AB+. I don't pay attention to the preheat time. Instead, I pay attention to the "B" temperature. Don't worry about anything exploding, imploding, melting down etc. Remember that their own instructions for cleaning include a burn cycle after wiping the interior. This burn cycle is a complete roast cycle with nothing inside.

Quote


Here's what I found out. Perhaps these data will be useful. They are subject to correction if your experimentation reveals different observations, but, for what it's worth, check this out.

1. When roasting on <auto> mode, the heating elements cut out at 286?F. Not sure yet what the cut-in temperature is. Just realized I'll need to observe that and report back.


I started with using the <auto> mode, but recorded the time, B temperature, A temperature, and other things that happened such as when the fan kicks in, when I hear cracks etc. All this information helped me when I decided to start manual roasting. Believe me, when you start getting the hang of manual roasting, you won't turn back!

I'm not an expert, but I have made a few roasting observations regarding the 2000AB+:
a. Beans seem to begin 1st crack at about "A" temperature = 338F. Sometimes it occurs a little higher, sometimes a little lower. But as you watch your "A" temperature approaching the mid-330's, 1st crack is imminent. This is particularly useful for decaf beans which don't always make much noise during 1st crack.
b. Beans seem to go into 2nd crack at about "A" temperature >360F. This is useful because if you like a dark roast but don't want the bitterness, this is the temperature you have to stay below.
c. Flavours seem to develop in the mid to high 350's. I tried taking a roast out after 1st crack, but the roast only experienced an "A" temperature in the low 350's for about a minute. The flavour was very woody. It seems that the roast has to be in the mid 350's to get your coffee flavours.

My observations are for Columbian beans. I haven't tried other beans, but from what I've read, the temperatures shouldn't vary too much from bean to bean. What will be different is how much heat you have to apply to get to the desired "A" temperatures. I'll be trying some other beans later and see if that holds true.

Quote


2. When roasting on manual mode-- like <P5>, for instance, the cutout temperature is higher-- 296?F to be exact. At <P4>, <P3>, and <P2> didn't get high enough to cause the elements to cut out.

This temperature cutout seems to be due to the fan that starts up mid-cycle. I think the fan stays off for the first 6-8 minutes or so during the drying phase so that the roaster can build up heat. Some people seem to like preheating to 320F (close to the thermal cutout). When the fan comes on they lose some heat, but it can build up again. For my Columbian roasts (decaf and regular), these high temperature aren't necessary. If I preheat so high, I will hit 1st crack way too soon and the roast will be done with little time for development. Other beans may need more heat.

Quote


3. At 1/4# and 1/2# setting, fan comes on at 5 minutes.

4. At 1# setting, fan comes on at 7-1/2 minutes.

I think the fan stays off for this time to build up heat in the drying phase. If you have more beans (1#), it requires more drying time. If you open the door a mere crack in the first 5 minutes, you will notice the grassy tones, and in the minute before the fan kicks on those grassy tones switch over the the dough tones. At least, that is what I've observed.

Quote


5. At <P2>, <P3> and <P4> settings the elements don't seem to radiate at 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively. Instead, they come on at what appears to be 100% for a period of seconds, then de-energize for a period. Here's what that looks like:

<P2> On for 4-5 seconds, Off for 12 seconds.
<P3> On for 8 seconds, Off for 8 seconds.
<P4> On for 12 seconds, Off for 4 seconds.

5. Pre-heating by temperature, rather than time. It's possible to pre-heat to 280?F. The temperature then drifts upward for a bit. After removing and charging the drum and replacing it, actual start temperatures are 240?F to 255?F depending on how efficiently that action is carried out. The 1600 Plus has no issue re-starting for the roast at that pre-charge temperature.

If you decide to pre-heat to 280?, the trick becomes controlling the RoR to 1c such that you don't hit 1c way too high and then experience a reversal of RoR.

This is a bit tricky and requires planning ahead of time, experimenting, and then experimenting some more. Finally, recently I've had some success. Without BT, I'm visualizing total energy in the oven-- thermal masses including beans, and envisioning injecting energy into the system in such manner as to keep it moving upwards at a diminishing rate.

Once the fan comes on, oven temp drops sharply, but fan temp immediately shoots up. Then, the two together, according to my theory, anyway, need to move upward. If we pay attention to the oven temperature only, we will be confused. Once the fan starts, both temperatures need to be considered together.

Using Roastmaster, I plot curves for both at one minute intervals and possibly add intermittent data points when they might prove significant-- dips, rises, 1c start, 1c end, etc. Whatever seems relevant for later evaluation.

I'm no expert, friends, let's be clear-- just an enthusiastic and curious aficionado of good coffee determined to hit as high a level of roasting as possible given the limitations of my understanding and equipment.

I will post results of further experiments here.


I look forwards to your further experiments! I'll start my own thread with my roasting profile that seems to work for Columbian beans. As I said, I'm no expert, but I seem to be making better tasting coffee store bought beans, so I'm happy with mine.
 
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