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Page 1 of 2: 12
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 Anthony's Coffee Machine
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/08/2015 7:19 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Hi Everyone! My drip machine decided to die just in time for my tax refund to come in. After shopping around a bit, I got the crazy idea that it would be fun to build a machine. It will be pump powered and temperature controlled. I also want it to have a similar look as my Andreja Premium (mirrored stainless finish) I figured it cant be too complicated. Put the hot water on the coffee ;) I started ordering the parts. The relays, valves, and heat will be controlled via arduino. For heat, I will use a Saeco j boiler. It looks to be powerful enough to heat the water on the fly. I attached a rough sketchup of my design. I should have the rest of the parts this week. Cheers!
AnthonyD attached the following images:
Edited by AnthonyD on 03/08/2015 7:30 PM |
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| ginny |
Posted on 03/08/2015 7:24 PM
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 Founder  Posts: 3476 Joined: October 24, 2005 |
Anthony, that looks like it will be a great machine. please get us posted with pictures as you go along with your project. how long do you think it will take to put it all together? ginny  |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/08/2015 7:32 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
It will probably take a few weeks to complete. I was hoping to start the frame this weekend but fedex had a delay due to weather. So my aluminum angle didn't come in. This week I plan to build the frame and start experimenting with the heater. |
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| jkoll42 |
Posted on 03/08/2015 7:49 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 860 Joined: February 14, 2011 |
Very cool project. Please keep a detailed build thread updated on this!
-Jon
Honey badger 1k, Bunn LPG-2E, Technivorm, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Vibiemme Double Domo V3 |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 03/09/2015 2:49 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
AWESOME! |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/09/2015 7:40 PM
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 Administrator  Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
If you aren't already locked into the funnel type, I'd like to suggest using this one used on the majority of Bunn drip machines. http://www.websta...aQodtGoA1g I spent a number of years setting up commercial coffee brewing systems when not roasting at a roastery here in Colorado. There's some magic that can happen with commercial brewers that is not possible with any other brewing device whether it be vacuum pot, press pot, chemex or any other we typically use at home. It has to do with floating a sufficiently large sized bed of ground coffee in a flat bottomed brew basket via a spray head as you show in your photo. The bed must not be allowed to fall during the complete brewing process or else the flavor profile will be completely changed for the worse. For a 1.5 liter brew, you should not use a brew basket smaller than the one linked to above for the magic to happen. Going smaller in diameter also makes it difficult to handle coffees that are prone to excessive bloom/foaming which with freshly roasted coffee, even several days past roast date can be a lot. You can get a nice brew from a cone filter but will not produce the flavor profile I'm referring to. During my time working at the roastery I was able to A-B our coffees brewed through all of the known brewing devices and the commercial brewer with flat bottom brew basket won every time as long as they were carefully set up and grind was optimum. The difference in taste is not minor and specifically the difference is their ability to bring out delicate fruit, herbal and floral notes that many times stay dormant in coffee brewed with other methods. I can get amazingly great coffee through my vac pot and Chemex but many of the notes that define many SO coffees are muted or worse, hidden altogether. Obviously, most methods will more than deliver the blueberry bombs with no problem but fail to bring the delicate notes to the forefront. This is a very exciting project!
allenb attached the following image:
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Lawnmowerman |
Posted on 03/09/2015 9:24 PM
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 Pounder  Posts: 546 Joined: March 14, 2012 |
Awesome post, Allen. Thank you! 
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/09/2015 10:46 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Oh man, I was going to go with a #4 cone type, but you sold me on the commercial one. I was trying to find something that would spread the water evenly. I was even looking at shower heads. Until I found the Bunn spray head, couldn't beat it for $5. Will one of those baskets limit me to only large batches? I will do more research on the baskets. Thanks! Edit: Also a small update. The aluminum for the frame came in today, but didn't have time to start it yet. Soldered the lcd display (link) and started working on some of the code for the arduino. Waiting on the driver board for the thermocouple before I can start testing the heater. Attached a pic (my camera doesn't like the display)
AnthonyD attached the following image:
Edited by AnthonyD on 03/09/2015 10:57 PM |
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| Lawnmowerman |
Posted on 03/10/2015 12:31 AM
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Pounder Posts: 546 Joined: March 14, 2012 |
Anthony. I use Bunn commercial filters in an old West Bend quick drip 10 cup. I cut off the cord and turned it into a pour over. I will use either 6 scoops and brew to the six cup mark. Or, 4 scoops to the four cup mark. So I don't use a pro basket yet, but the basket I do use needs commercial filters. My guess is that smaller batches will brew just fine because they do with mine.
Bad coffee prevails when good coffee roasters stand by and do nothing.
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 03/10/2015 4:53 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
let me echo Allenb's thoughts about commercial pour-overss. I recall when i was using the Bloomfield twice a week, that two major improvement were made to my old machine: __Stainless basket __Spray head - This was the a huge improvement in flavor. Bloomfield swicthed from a few big holes to many small ones... |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/10/2015 10:04 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Small update today. My order from chriscoffee.com came in. An expansion valve, rubber mounts for the pump, air release valve for the pump, and a set of lights to match my espresso machine. I started fitting the plumbing stuff together and worked a bit more on the arduino code. didn't get to test the pump or heater yet. For the plumbing my set up is: pump (with air valve) -> expansion valve -> needle valve (to adjust flow rate) -> heater -> solenoid valve The air release valve and expansion valve will vent back to the reservoir. I will need to order another solenoid valve. I didn't expect to put it after the heater, and the water temp will be higher than it's rating. I think my thermocouple driver is still in China, so I ordered another one on amazon that should be here by friday. Cheers!
AnthonyD attached the following images:
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/10/2015 10:34 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote AnthonyD wrote: I was trying to find something that would spread the water evenly. I was even looking at shower heads. Until I found the Bunn spray head, couldn't beat it for $5. Will one of those baskets limit me to only large batches? I will do more research on the baskets. There are some brew baskets by Bunn and other makers that are less in diameter but to get best results I wouldn't go smaller than this one. It's around 7.5" OD and around 3.5" tall and uses the 20115 filter If you program your controller to allow pulse brew (pulsing the water on for X seconds and off for X seconds) then you'll be able to do less than a full batch and still be able to attain at least a 3 to 3.5 minute steep time. There's a limit on how small a brew you can do with a given basket as you don't ever want to let the grounds bed hit the bottom of the filter without some brew liquid below it. When this happens, the interaction of water and grounds is disturbed and will not produce the desired outcome. To produce optimum results from this type of system you're going to need to use what is typically called "coarse drip" or commercial drip grind which is around 700 to 800 microns and is close in size to coarse kosher salt (not rock salt). I know that most household coffee grinders unfortunately start to produce irregular flakes when trying to produce this size grind but hopefully yours is up to the task. I found a used Bunn LPG commercial grinder for a great price a while back and it is able to do a nice coarse drip grind without flakes and very little fines. Also, with the coarser grind you will be using more coffee than with a cone funnel. If you typically use 2.5 oz for a 10 cup brew you will most likely be using 3 or 3.25 oz with the larger grind and larger brew basket surface area. Well, now I'm going to have to find me a good used commercial drip brewer now that I'm remembering how good the brew was! But, will have to find a place to install it in my shop. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/10/2015 11:14 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
For grinding I should be okay, I have a grindmaster 875. It does well for french press. I just ordered the Bunn 20217. Also ordered a Bunn decanter to go with it. Thanks for the input! |
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/10/2015 11:52 PM
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 1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote allenb wrote: To produce optimum results from this type of system you're going to need to use what is typically called "coarse drip" or commercial drip grind which is around 700 to 800 microns and is close in size to coarse kosher salt (not rock salt). I know that most household coffee grinders unfortunately start to produce irregular flakes when trying to produce this size grind but hopefully yours is up to the task. I found a used Bunn LPG commercial grinder for a great price a while back and it is able to do a nice coarse drip grind without flakes and very little fines. Also, with the coarser grind you will be using more coffee than with a cone funnel. If you typically use 2.5 oz for a 10 cup brew you will most likely be using 3 or 3.25 oz with the larger grind and larger brew basket surface area. Well, now I'm going to have to find me a good used commercial drip brewer now that I'm remembering how good the brew was! But, will have to find a place to install it in my shop. Allen I've used one for ages. It makes a very nice large brew of coffee. 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/11/2015 6:59 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote AnthonyD wrote: For grinding I should be okay, I have a grindmaster 875. It does well for french press. I just ordered the Bunn 20217. Also ordered a Bunn decanter to go with it. Thanks for the input! Boy I'll say you're ok. With that grinder you're more than ok! You'll be able to experiment with med-fine up to coarse drip with no problem to find the sweet spot. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/11/2015 7:02 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote Turtle posted: I've used one for ages. It makes a very nice large brew of coffee. Nice! I'm jealous. 
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/11/2015 8:03 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Quote AnthonyD wrote: For heat, I will use a Saeco j boiler. It looks to be powerful enough to heat the water on the fly. I did some rough btu calculations to come up with the kilowatts required to do an instantaneous heating of water from 70F to 200F at .825 lbs per minute. .825 lbs per minute equates to the flow of 1.5 liters in four minutes. The formula is lbs per hour x temperature rise in degrees F = btu's/hr 49.5 lbs/hr x 130 = 6435 btu's/hr. There are .293 watts per btu so 6435 x .293 = 1885 watts needed for an electric to water heat exchanger operating at 100% efficiency. I'm not sure how much loss there is with the Saeco j heat exchanger but you'd have to factor in some loss even if very well insulated. Doing the calculation with an exit water temperature of 195F we get a needed kw of 1812. I read in one add for the Saeco J boiler that boiler alone is around 1200 watts and if this is the case, it might be tough to pull off going instantaneous with a 1.5 liter brew. Hopefully my calcs are in error but I checked my math a couple of times. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/11/2015 8:04 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote allenb wrote: Quote Turtle posted: I've used one for ages. It makes a very nice large brew of coffee. Nice! I'm jealous. After posting I felt guilty that I might be hijacking the OPs thread. I am very interested in seeing what the OP comes up with and I accept your envy with humility 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/11/2015 8:58 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Quote turtle wrote: Quote allenb wrote: Quote Turtle posted: I've used one for ages. It makes a very nice large brew of coffee. Nice! I'm jealous. After posting I felt guilty that I might be hijacking the OPs thread. I am very interested in seeing what the OP comes up with and I accept your envy with humility No worries. Would you be able to post a close up of how the basket connects? |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/11/2015 9:15 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Quote allenb wrote: Quote AnthonyD wrote: For heat, I will use a Saeco j boiler. It looks to be powerful enough to heat the water on the fly. I did some rough btu calculations to come up with the kilowatts required to do an instantaneous heating of water from 70F to 200F at .825 lbs per minute. .825 lbs per minute equates to the flow of 1.5 liters in four minutes. The formula is lbs per hour x temperature rise in degrees F = btu's/hr 49.5 lbs/hr x 130 = 6435 btu's/hr. There are .293 watts per btu so 6435 x .293 = 1885 watts needed for an electric to water heat exchanger operating at 100% efficiency. I'm not sure how much loss there is with the Saeco j heat exchanger but you'd have to factor in some loss even if very well insulated. Doing the calculation with an exit water temperature of 195F we get a needed kw of 1812. I read in one add for the Saeco J boiler that boiler alone is around 1200 watts and if this is the case, it might be tough to pull off going instantaneous with a 1.5 liter brew. Hopefully my calcs are in error but I checked my math a couple of times. Allen Good math! I probably should have did the calculations. Here's my update for today. I just wired the parts and ran a quick test. The good news is everything works. But the boiler cannot heat to 195 on the fly. With the heat on and pump constant the water coming out leveled off around 140. I can adjust the flow rate with the needle valve but it probably wont help much. So I will have to do cycles, the temperature recovers very fast. But this will make temperature control more complicated. The boiler has a second heating element, I think normally for steam. I can give it another test run with both elements running.
AnthonyD attached the following image:
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| turtle |
Posted on 03/12/2015 9:19 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 652 Joined: November 06, 2013 |
Quote The basket slides into rails that are spot welded on either side of the brew head  Here is a pic of my older 10 cup home model. Plastic but I think it shows the slots better 
Mick - "Drinking in life one cup at a time"
"I'd rather be roasting coffee" Roaster 1: San Franciscan SF-1 Roaster 2: Hottop B-2K+ Roaster 3: 2 kilo Chinese drum Grinders: Mazzer Major - Forte BG (x3) Pour over: Hario - Bee House - Chemex - Kalita - Bodum Drip: Bunn CWTF15-1 & CW15-TC (commercials) Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90 auto Vacuum: Cona - Bodum Press: Frieling - Bodum Colombia |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/12/2015 12:06 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Awesome, thanks! |
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| oldgearhead |
Posted on 03/17/2015 6:27 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1128 Joined: February 10, 2011 |
For what its worth info: A Bloomfield brew basket is 7 and 5/16th inches across the width that slides into the flanges. probably the same as Bunn. They use the same 20115 filter. |
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| AnthonyD |
Posted on 03/22/2015 6:31 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 79 Joined: March 16, 2013 |
Hi Everyone! New update. I big hold up has been the threaded connections on the heater. I can't find a fitting that would fit them. So I cut them off, and made fittings for them by drilling 3/16" holes into 1/8" brass caps. After a couple of failed attempts at soldering them on, I decided I am just going to JB Weld them. The pipe coming out of the heater is stainless so I would probably need to use a solder wither higher silver content. But I don't really want to spend the money on it for just two small fittings. JB Weld can handle the heat and wont be in direct contact with the water. I finished the frame and sheet metal for the most part. My first attempt at the front face plate failed miserably, when I tried cutting the opening for the LCD display with a jigsaw. I remade the front plate and ordered a hand nibbler (link) to try again, which should be in tomorrow. Also bought a larger display which will let me do a menu system (link) The stainless tube I bought is too thick for me to bend, so I ordered some thin walled brass which will be here by tuesday. I think brass will will look nice, giving the machine a two tone look. To mount the brew basket, I am going to make a stand with stainless rod. I bought some 308L-16 electrodes to attempt to weld it. I have the heater mounted with a bracket I made with some aluminum flat bar. It is raised up so it will be close to the top to keep the coffee pot warm. The other sides of the heater will be insulated with ceramic fiber. The first thermocouple amp I ordered finally arrived from china. I am going to mount it with a bare thermocouple in the spray head. That way I can calibrate between the temp of the heater and brew temp. Cheers!
AnthonyD attached the following images:
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| allenb |
Posted on 03/22/2015 8:06 PM
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Administrator Posts: 3858 Joined: February 23, 2010 |
Wow, looking good! That's too bad about the heat exchanger connections. Something to be aware of. Some plastics have a nasty tendency of outgassing for years when subjected to high temperature water. The outgassing is most likely not a health issue but can add a funky plastic taste to the brew. There have been many home coffee brewers from various manufacturers over the years that have suffered from this defect. Hopefully the plastic tubing you're using going to the brew head won't do that but I would do some test brews without coffee and smell/taste the water to rule it out. My preference would be copper tubing. Allen 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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