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Picked up a used Ambex YM-5 with a SOLO4824.....I need help!!!
Boss99er
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 7:10 AM
Hey guys, I picked up my YM-5 this weekend and am super excited to get roasting on it! Check it out here: http://imgur.com/...

But...I need some help. First off, I've never roasted with a PID. Second, I'm having trouble finding much info on my Solo 4824 controller. Any help on using the PID, or on the 4824 itself would be AWESOME! All the previous owner could show me was how to set it to RUN so the roaster would start. He had no control over gas. He would just set the high temp limit, charge the beans, and then dump them when they were "dark enough." I'd like to have more control than that.

Thanks guys!




edit to MAKE LINK LIVE
Edited by ginny on 08/19/2015 2:47 PM
 
witoldb
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 1:54 PM
First hit for "solo 4824 pid" in google gives you manual for your controller.
I see it is very similar to Delta DT-B which I'm using except decimal resolution for K thermocouples on Delta.
My roaster is electrical and only 300g but I can answer any questions you may have about using the PID with ramp/soak functions.
Do you have proportional gas valve hooked up to the controller?
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder
300g DIY drum roaster
 
Boss99er
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 2:00 PM
Hi witoldb!!! Thanks for responding. I found the manual, but its greek to me. I read through it for about 30 min last night, and felt no more confident at the end than I did at the beginning.

I do have a proportional gas valve. Its a Maxitrol Selectra. The previous owner told me it does very little to actually control the flame though. Maybe its set up incorrectly. Here is a pic of my roaster's "guts."

http://imgur.com/...

Honestly, I would love to just be able to use the PID for temp limiter, temp readout, and the manual knob for actual manual gas control. Is that not possible though?
 
witoldb
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 5:47 PM
Please check model number of your gas valve and component details on the right side of valve shown in your picture.
Are there any Maxitrol controllers/boxes in your machine or is the valve connected directly to the PID?
Also what is the output type in Solo PID?
It will be R, V, C or L letter after 4824 number.
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder
300g DIY drum roaster
 
Boss99er
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 6:02 PM
My PID doesn't seem to have a letter after the number. Is this where you're referring to?

http://i.imgur.co...

For the model number of the valve, are you referring to the Honeywell piece or the Maxitrol piece. Sorry bud, you'll have to explain it like I'm 5 until I get up to speed.

Thanks for your help!!!
 
Boss99er
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 10:58 PM
Here are a few more pics if they'll help.

Honeywell http://i.imgur.co...

Maxitrol http://i.imgur.co...

Thanks again!!!
 
Boss99er
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/2015 11:15 PM
Ok....more pics. I took off the front panel to see what we had behind there. I take it the blue board is the Maxitrol controller you were asking about? Anywho, here are the pics!

http://imgur.com/...
 
witoldb
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/2015 3:37 AM
Your PID model number has got relay outputs.
Looks like you have Honeywell igniter, Maxitrol modulating valve and Maxitrol control board but can't see its model number - maybe it is printed on bottom of the board.
I'm not sure how PID with relay/on-off output will regulate the flame in linear fashion.
Maby it is set to short cycle time like 3 seconds?
Since it is gas system, safest will be to first ask Ambex for operating instructions.
Home: Breville DB, Mahlkonig Vario+K30
Work: Nuova Simonelli single group Aurelia I +MDX grinder
300g DIY drum roaster
 
Boss99er
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/2015 7:13 AM
Unfortunately, Ambex didn't install this. Don Vining at Roaster Authority and it seems he's no longer around to ask about it.

So, with the On/Off relay, the previous owner was probably correct that it wold only ever be full on or full off. Crap.....
 
Boss99er
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/2015 12:06 PM
Ok, here is what I can see.....

The PID only has power (black and white), signal wires to igniter (red and yellow), and input from the thermocouple (red and black). I don't see that the PID attempts to control gas at all.

The manual knob has wires (green, light purple and dark purple) running to the Maxitrol board.

The Maxitrol valve has two wires (red and black) running to some wire nuts, tying them to other wires that then run to the Maxitrol board. I need to do more digging to see what else runs into those wire nuts.

Anyone else see anything fishy?
 
Boss99er
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/2015 2:13 PM
Update: I just confirmed the Maxitrol Modulator that I have installed on my roaster is for LP only.......and the previous owner was using it with natural gas. I would assume that's why he reported no flame control. Would you guys agree?
 
Ringo
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 12:37 PM
For modulating PID control you need to look for 4 to 20 millamp output or 0 to 10 volts. I do not think that pid does that. You also need the gas valve to input the same voltage. I am guessing it was set up for on off control, this could work if set up right.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
Boss99er
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 12:39 PM
Yeah, its ON/OFF for sure. At this point, I would just like to use the PID for ON/OFF, and control the gas completely manual. I'm assuming I can remove all of the Maxitrol equipment and just install a regular gas valve to control flame?
 
allenb
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 1:15 PM

Quote

Boss99er wrote:

Yeah, its ON/OFF for sure. At this point, I would just like to use the PID for ON/OFF, and control the gas completely manual. I'm assuming I can remove all of the Maxitrol equipment and just install a regular gas valve to control flame?


The Maxitrol valve is a modulating valve capable of varying burner output from a pre-settable minimum firing rate to full output. Definitely leave the PID, maxitrol valve and Honeywell ignition/safety module in the roaster as this is the right stuff to have in your roaster for allowing variable control and safe operation. For manual control it will only require the addition of a simple electronic circuit with potentiometer with accessible knob outside of the roaster to adjust burner output. I can't remember if this maxitrol valve needs a variable 4-20 mA or 0-10 dc but either way it is not hard or expensive to do.

I've worked with someone else who used this setup so let me do some digging and I'll let you know what it took. In the mean time, others who've responded in this thread, if you already know what it takes to accomplish adding the manual control circuit, go ahead and post it.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Boss99er
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 2:38 PM
Hey Allen! I've actually got the external knob on the front of my machine. The knob connects to a Maxitrol board, and then the board connects to the valve. That should be all I need, correct? I was told by someone that my Maxitrol valve is the M420RH....which is apparently for propane? I cant seem to get a straight answer from Maxitrol. Any idea on that?

Here are pics of how my Maxitrol components are connected: http://imgur.com/...

Knob on front, to small blue board, to valve.
 
allenb
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 3:11 PM
I'm pretty sure that valve can work with either LP or natural gas but see if there's an extended model/serial number. If going from one gas to another you'll have to swap out the burner jet/orifice to maintain the burners BTU output capacity.

Can you find the model number of the maxitrol board? This would help us coach you on troubleshooting the manual control pot/board issue.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Boss99er
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 3:15 PM
I'll see if I can find a model number for the board tonight. Hopefully its not on the back of the dang thing. :-)

Thanks for the help, Allen!!!
 
Ringo
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 3:55 PM
http://forum.home...post_56656

Seems this was talked a bought in 2013
Edited by JackH on 08/20/2015 4:38 PM
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
Boss99er
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 4:02 PM
Oh cool.....so I should be able to measure power output from the board to the valve, correct? I have a multi-meter, but I'll be honest, don't really know how to use it. What should I set it to, to measure the voltage to the valve? I have this one: http://www.prosef...tmeter.jpg

My guess is the DVC 20 mark?

It looks like it should fluctuate between 0-20v from what I'm reading.

Man, I'm learning a lot, very quickly with this new roaster!
 
Boss99er
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 7:13 PM
Hey Allenb, here are a couple pics of my Maxitrol board. Does this help?

http://imgur.com/...

Thanks!!!
Edited by Boss99er on 08/20/2015 7:19 PM
 
allenb
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/2015 11:06 PM

Quote

Boss99er wrote:

Oh cool.....so I should be able to measure power output from the board to the valve, correct? I have a multi-meter, but I'll be honest, don't really know how to use it. What should I set it to, to measure the voltage to the valve? I have this one: http://www.prosef...tmeter.jpg

My guess is the DVC 20 mark?

It looks like it should fluctuate between 0-20v from what I'm reading.

Man, I'm learning a lot, very quickly with this new roaster!


Ok, first off, if you haven't worked around electrical circuits much in the past, don't do anything that can bring you in contact with the 120 volt side of things as we want you to live a long and prosperous life.

Set your meter to DC volts and measure the volts across the two terminals marked "valve". Yes, it should vary between 0 and 20 vdc when you turn the pot.

Try it without the valve wires plugged in and with them plugged in and let us know what you get.

The photo helps and the board looks like one of the ones I'd seen before. The one I've seen the most is the SC11 which has a dip switch to select between a 0-10 vdc and 4-20 mA input but this one is obviously meant to work with the pot on your roaster.

Get back to us with your readings and we'll go from there.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/2015 8:00 AM
My bad! Cancel my instruction to measure dc voltage from the board's valve terminals without valve wires attached. For the maxitrol board to output a voltage to the valve, the honeywell smart valve has to sense a pilot before it will power up the maxitrol board at all.

If the only inputs/ouputs to the maxitrol board are 24 vdc power and the brown/green/blue to the pot, you could test the board by supplying it with a separate 24 vdc source and with pot plugged in. To do this test, have the board totally disconnected from the roaster. Otherwise you're depending on the honeywell smart valve and pilot to be operating correctly and sending the 24 vdc which may not be the case.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Boss99er
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/2015 10:14 AM
Ahh cool. I'll try to test that this weekend.

As an FYI for anyone reading this, got this from Maxitrol support this morning:

Quote

The standard M420 is better suited to work with a natural gas supply. The "H" is capable of a larger modulation range which is an advantage when the gas
supply is propane. Depending on the pressures required the valves (M420RH) will work
on either natural or propane.
 
Boss99er
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/2015 4:59 PM
Well....another update. Just spoke with Amir from Ambex and he said my valve (M420RH) should NOT be used with natural gas. He said it might "work" but not very well.

So much conflicting info!
 
allenb
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/2015 8:16 PM
Here's a link to info on the honeywell smart valve

https://customer....9-1004.pdf

It looks like there's an adjustable regulator built into it so you can tweak the pressure leaving it before it hits the maxitrol valve but I'm having trouble finding what pressure it needs to see coming into it from your gas source which will be an important piece of information.

The maxitrol valve could care less whether it's LP or natural but the pressure entering it is important for it to be able to modulate from low fire to maximum high fire effectively.

To me, the critical areas are:

-what pilot orifice is installed in the honeywell smart valve? You'll find this discussed in the info the link takes you to.
-Make sure the smart valve internal regulator is adjusted for the pressure the maxitrol valve wants to see entering it.
-make sure the main burner orifice/jet is sized for the gas you'll end up using
- what gas pressure does the honeywell smart valve need to see at it's input? 11 inches H2O?

If this roaster does not already have a pressure gauge to show you pressure leaving the maxitrol valve, I would highly suggest you install one in a convenient to read location so you can make (repeatable) small incremental changes to the burner to allow tight control of bean temp rate of rise.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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