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Dereks 1-2Kg drum roaster build
dmccallum
So, I've increased the depth of the cooling tray to around 10L volume and started to add pipes back to the cyclone. A chap called Moshe over at Home-barista.com was kind enough to field a call and provide a number of photos of his San Fransican SF-1 cyclone in a disassembled state. Very helpful and filled some gaps for me.
The design of the SF-1 cyclone is very simple and will allow me to draw from both drum and cooling tray with one fan.

I have replicated the SF-1s dimensions and need to consider if a cylcone designed for a 0.5kg machine will work for 2kg. Any thoughts anyone? Just how much chaf do you expect to get from a 2kg roast?

I've put two 1 3/4" pipes to the cooling tray. Needed to do this to get either side of the burner which will sit in between. One of the pipes can be bent thus forming a 3-point anchor for the cooling tray.
Yet to sort out a manifold to get the two tray pipes into the 3" pipe inlet under the cyclone.

The SF-1 uses a 130CFM fan so figure this one http://www.electr...vOtKb.dpbs should suffice.
dmccallum attached the following images:
coolingtray20160114-2.jpg coolingtray20160114-1.jpg
 
dmccallum
Think I'm just about done with the 3D model now. It's easy to get a bit carried away and produce lovely pictures but it does help to flesh out as much as possible what will work, how and also to reduce the amount of fabrication you have to do yourself or re-engineering you might find yourself doing in the course of..

I've reconfigured the chain drive to include a shaft to the cooling tray although I haven't yet figured out the mechanics of a tray arm and connecting it up.
Venting will be controlled by the damper and flap shown.

So here's a bunch of pics. I've had a few comments from various people about what to consider and would welcome as much feedback as possible. Otherwise I'll start on 2D autocad and get some steel cut.
.
dmccallum attached the following images:
coolingventopen.jpg coolingventshut.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-8.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-7.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-6.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-5.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-4.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-3.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-2.jpg 2kg-concept-pr20160311-1.jpg

Edited by dmccallum on 03/11/2016 7:50 AM
 
dmccallum
I meant to ask if someone could comment on my trier and TC config?

The drum rotates anti-clockwise and I've put a TC in the drum vent/hopper assy and one in the drum door.

Anything I'm missing?
 
hbboyd
Trier and TC placement look good mine are in similar places ( I have clockwise rotation though). I have to say that the trier size looks overkill to me and the small tub you have it resting in looks a little short, you might get beans flying out of it.
 
dmccallum

Quote

hbboyd wrote:

I have to say that the trier size looks overkill to me and the small tub you have it resting in looks a little short, you might get beans flying out of it.


Just the steer I was hoping for!
Thanks very much.
 
dmccallum
Have rejigged the trier for 50mm capture and the holder tube/tub 50mm also.

Does the action of the beans tend to move the trier around ? How's it normally secured ?
dmccallum attached the following image:
trier1.jpg
 
allenb

Quote

Does the action of the beans tend to move the trier around ? How's it normally secured ?


Yes, the beans do move/vibrate the trier and will tend to back it out if you don't mount it on a slight angle. The angle also prevents beans from finding their way through the trier hole and out into your cooling tray. I would do as Probat does and include a protruding "thumb" extension of metal extending out from the base of the trier to act as a pendulum to allow the trier to always end up rotating itself cup side down when you place it back in the hole.

My advice to anyone building a drum roaster is to take the time to put together a mock up see through front out of acrylic or lexan to get a real picture of bean movement/trajectory. Otherwise you're only able to make a good guess as to where the best spot is to capture beans in the trier and especially for best probe placement. Depending on rpm and vane size/placement, some roasters favor mounting the trier on the up-travel side and others the opposite side. Same goes for the probe. Mine sees the highest density of beans where you're showing it in your graphics. Locating the probe in a low density area can cause it to be affected by convection currents. Another tip is to make sure you don't locate the trier too close to the vanes. Leave at least 3/4" if not more between any part of the trier and vanes.

If you don't want to spend lots on a large piece of acrylic, use 1/4" mdf and cut out a large rectangle to mount a piece of acrylic in. Make the acrylic area large enough to see most of the bean action.

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
dmccallum
Have completed more of the cooling-tray mechanism, although haven't detailed how I'll connect the drive shaft to the arms. Adjusted trier angles on basis of previous comment.

At this point I've created a nice pretty 3D and I've about done with it at this point. From here I can start drafting 2D patterns in order to get steel cut.

I have shared the file in the 3D Warehouse for anyone who wants to take a look or hack it around.
https://3dwarehou...ee-Roaster

Please do feedback if you see anything I appear not to have considered.
dmccallum attached the following image:
2kg-concept-pr20160323.jpg

Edited by dmccallum on 01/18/2022 3:46 AM
 
hbboyd
Hey, something to note. I was looking though your design and noticed that where the bean chute enters the drum you have a decent sized flat spot where beans will end up sitting and getting all nasty. I have attached an image to help show the area.
hbboyd attached the following image:
flat_spot.jpg
 
dmccallum

Quote


Hey, something to note. I was looking though your design and noticed that where the bean chute enters the drum you have a decent sized flat spot where beans will end up sitting and getting all nasty. I have attached an image to help show the area.


Thanks - hadn't considered that. And yes, the hopper + front plates would be something like 8+mm.
 
hbboyd
Yea I had to weld in in a small plate on mine to prevent this from happening which was less than ideal. How goes the transition to 2d? Do you have a manufacturer you're working with?
 
dmccallum
I'll start with 2D shortly, just waiting for any further feedback.
It won't take as long as the 3D and will use Seimens SolidEdge 2D Drafting package (it's free & very capable).

I have a stainless manufacturer I've used before which I'll likely get to cut the steels, and I use a model engineer who likes to recoup the investment in his garage of fancy CNC kit by offering out machining services. He's an especially useful guy to have met - real craftsman who can do things that regular commercials just don't do or would charge the earth for. I also use a british company called Lamb Engineering who build custom motorcylces (bit like Orange County Motorcycles off the telly). Again, someone with specialized skills who are willing to do things at reasonable cost, not that anything in this build will be particularly challenging. I have pondered getting my own lathe but just haven't quite been able to justify it yet.

When someone suggested they were looking for plans it occurred to me it would be a good idea to stick as much as possible to stock materials. I can't imagine at this stage if you got steels cut from equivalent metric or imperial stock that it would cause any problems. The venting tube is standard 1 3/4" mild steel tube and from what I can tell it's cheap as chips to order this bent to your specification. There are a few bits you'll have to get fabricated if you can't do it yourself, but otherwise putting this together should be straightforward.

One thing I'll have to do is get to grips with MIG welding. I mainly do silver-braizing with propane but can see that MIG would be better for the sheet work.
Edited by dmccallum on 03/29/2016 4:55 AM
 
hbboyd
Nice, sounds like you have it pretty sorted which is awesome.

Two additional things to note from your design:

1) I would incorporate some kind of chute/guard to keep the beans coming out of the roaster headed into the cooling tray, you'd be surprised the angle some will come shooting out at.

2) The hopper for your beans should be a more normal cone or pyramid for ease of fabrication. The shape you have right now is pretty odd shaped.
 
dmccallum

Quote

hbboyd wrote:

1) I would incorporate some kind of chute/guard to keep the beans coming out of the roaster headed into the cooling tray, you'd be surprised the angle some will come shooting out at.

2) The hopper for your beans should be a more normal cone or pyramid for ease of fabrication. The shape you have right now is pretty odd shaped.


Oh dang! I forgot to put the chute back in. Get onto that shortly

As for the hopper, yes it might seem a bit fanciful and will depend on how good I get at MIG welding. It has however been sized to accommodate a full 2kg load of beans and it keeps things within the outer dimensions I had in mind.
 
dmccallum
An idea I had from something I picked up in Scott Raos book where he talks about his preference for double-drums and talk here about installing a baffle.

Tell me if I'm getting carried away but this would be easy to implement with a few lengths of 3x10mm flat and 1mm sheet steel.
dmccallum attached the following images:
doubledrum_poss3.jpg doubledrum_poss2.jpg doubledrum_poss1.jpg

Edited by dmccallum on 03/31/2016 8:17 AM
 
hbboyd
I can't see why not, and it really doesn't look like that much effort.
 
Ringo
I wish I would have included a removable baffle in my drum roaster. One bean may be better with it in while another may be better with it out.
All you need in life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure. Mark Twain
 
kr3sn4
Looking forward to see the final one, looks very promising
 
dmccallum
Thread had to be parked for a time. Things are ongoing now albeit at a slower rate.

The process of converting the 3D to 2D drawings to get steels cut and various other parts fabricated has required to me reconsider a few things - normalizing some of the dimensions, aligning various holes for sake of simplicity etc.
I have also updated the 3D https://3dwarehou...a838240576 with other ideas I've had and it's looking better. I'll share the 2D files at some point once more complete.

I have a 20K BTU burner. A UK company came up with a bar burner with the best dimensions for my unit and were able to modify just a little as well to increase the flame proximity to the rear plate.
dmccallum attached the following images:
2d_scrape_2.jpg 2d_scrape_1.jpg

Edited by dmccallum on 07/18/2016 8:02 AM
 
dmccallum
And a photo of my burner..
dmccallum attached the following image:
2016-07-18_160254.jpg
 
oldgrumpus
Can you tell us about the burner? Where'd it come from and what did it cost? BTU output?

I love everything about this build, great design and 3D computer design work! Keep it coming!

BTW, I plan to steal as many of your ideas as I can!! Grin
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
 
dmccallum
I got the burner from this crowd in the UK,
http://www.birmin...s-burner-2

Its 10-20K BTU although as I've asked them to TIG a piece across the first few holes it'll be a little less. The base item is about ?50 and I think I paid about ?20 more for the mod.

This particular burner just fit my cabinet better than the Polidor models I'd identified.
 
oldgrumpus
I love the quality and the price seems very reasonable! What's next on the agenda?
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
 
dmccallum
Cyclone Question:
One thing that has occurred to me is the direction of the vortex in the cyclone and should I be concerned about northern -vs- southern hemisphere coriolis effect. I suspect not, the force of the motor will overcome this although I've also seen comment that the vortex should travel in the same direction as your blowers impeller so that the motor does not have to work against it. Again though Bill Pentze suggests this is more of a problem once you go over 2HP, which I am nowhere near with the blower I'm intending to use: http://www.electr...A0Rdm.dpbs

So I suspect I can ignore these issues, but can anyone share some insight here or describe the config of the cyclones they're using?
Edited by JackH on 08/17/2016 5:41 AM
 
broeker
It will be important to get the cyclone right, in my experience if you're not getting 100% separation and have a squirrel cage fan "pulling" air through your setup it will chaff will clog it very quickly, they often cant handle the heat as well............. my search for a suitable fan started with blowers made for "pellet fires" or combustion fans, they have a radial blower which doesn't clog up... r.e cyclones the ratios are very important.

Google this "Performance Characteristics of Cyclones in Cotton?Gin Dust Removal" its a very good research paper to start expanding your cyclone knowledge with a product more "chaff" like what were dealing with (stuff around wood chips aren't really relevant in my opinion) my latest system uses a modified 1d3d arrangement and works perfectly 100% separation.....
 
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