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Fluid Bed Air Roaster & Cooler
seedlings
Top  #26 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 9:46 AM

Quote

Homeroaster wrote:
We really have some creativity flowing, right at the last days of the contest! Woo Hoo! What a cool design.


Thanks, Homeroaster;) - I was afraid the stiff competition would show up late in the game... but bring it on! I'm sure you'll have a very large crop in the fall contest. I may even have a new design B).


Can't wait to see what else comes in

CHAD
 
ginny
Top  #27 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 10:51 AM
CHAD:

I fine, fine roaster. Great work. Super presentation. Way cool.

Are you aware that this judge can be bought?

lots of luck,

ginny

s:8s:8s:8s:8
 
seedlings
Top  #28 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 11:27 AM

Quote

ginny wrote:
CHAD:

I fine, fine roaster. Great work. Super presentation. Way cool.

Are you aware that this judge can be bought?

lots of luck,

ginny

s:8s:8s:8s:8


Ginny, I'm not giving you any more money, so stop asking!

smile;)Grins:4c:2


CHAD
 
Coffeenut
Top  #29 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 3:50 PM
Chad,

Having an air roaster that does a pound of coffee, easy to use...now there's a great alternative to the 3-4oz consumer air roasters! Liked your design and the time-lapse video. Great work!

Rick
 
dfluke
Top  #30 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 6:47 PM
Looks like we have similar tastes!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfluke/789256333/in/set-72157594305402356/

Have you tried the Kona Extra Fancy? I got two lbs for Christmas and just now got to roasting. It's great, but the Altura isn't bad either.
Cheers and good luck with the contest.
 
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seedlings
Top  #31 Print Post
Posted on 07/26/2007 9:59 PM

Quote

dfluke wrote:
Looks like we have similar tastes!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfluke/789256333/in/set-72157594305402356/

Have you tried the Kona Extra Fancy? I got two lbs for Christmas and just now got to roasting. It's great, but the Altura isn't bad either.
Cheers and good luck with the contest.


dfluke! First time anyone I've found online that I don't know personally uses the Roasterie coffee! Kona? No. How 'bout the new Panama Esmerelda Especial for only $157.29 for 8oz (roasted).

One of the reasons I switched to roasting was to save money. Paying $12/lb for (GREAT) roasted coffee was too much for the budget!

At the Roasterie, the Altura is second to the bottom in price. Last time I got the Brazil, which is the cheapest offering from there. Brazil was $4.04/lb and so if I bought 10lbs, that'd be $40.40 - and with free shipping on all orders over $40... My cheap side has been rewardedGrin. The Mexican Altura is... woah, just looked... it's now up from the low $4 range to $4.66/lb...!

This is why I just made my first green coffee purchase from Coffee Bean Direct. 25lbs of Ethiopian Yirgecheffe for $3.80/lb + free shipping. I'm splitting the bag with my 2 local roasting friends. It'll be my first time roasting Yirgecheffe. I'm excited. Should arriave Monday.


Quote

Coffeenut wrote:
Chad,

Having an air roaster that does a pound of coffee, easy to use...now there's a great alternative to the 3-4oz consumer air roasters! Liked your design and the time-lapse video. Great work!

Rick


Thanks very much Rick. I spent a lot of time trying to make the least expensive, repeatable, least complicated 1lb roaster I could. If someone wanted another one, I could make it tomorrow. If I roasted much more than one pound, it'd take away from the fun of roasting. I use about a pound a week, so once a week I get to roast!

Regardless of popular musical wisdom, "Coffee" is the word.

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 07/26/2007 10:02 PM
 
seedlings
Top  #32 Print Post
Posted on 07/30/2007 10:42 PM
I dropped (broke) my long thermometer and replaced it with this shorter one.
seedlings attached the following image:
Temp1[366].jpg
 
seedlings
Top  #33 Print Post
Posted on 07/30/2007 10:43 PM
I decided it would be easier to keep an eye on, plus make consistent contact with the bean mass.
seedlings attached the following image:
Temp 2[367].jpg
 
seedlings
Top  #34 Print Post
Posted on 07/30/2007 10:45 PM
So, I just poked a hole thru and viola. Perfect.



I've also been experimenting with a baffle placed between the blower and the hopper. I've found it to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the ambient blower noise. The cracks were MUCH more pronounced. I think soon I'll have some sort of shroud for the blower. I have some industrial rigid fiberglass insulation which has excellent sound absorption properties. I just need a way to be sure the fibers don't get sucked into the blower.

Are we ever "finished" modifying...?

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Temp 3[368].jpg
Edited by seedlings on 07/30/2007 10:50 PM
 
Alchemist
Top  #35 Print Post
Posted on 07/31/2007 4:31 PM
Hey, great job. I got my entries in, but I had yet to look around.

I do have a question. Is any of that galvanized metal in contact with the beans or the hot air flow? I can't tell and always thought galvanized/zinc coated was a no-no in roasting.

Not to leave it on a critical note, I LOVE your air flow damper. People seem to get so hung up on electronic this and that, it's really nice to see a simple physical solution.
 
seedlings
Top  #36 Print Post
Posted on 07/31/2007 9:32 PM

Quote

Alchemist wrote:
I do have a question. Is any of that galvanized metal in contact with the beans or the hot air flow? I can't tell and always thought galvanized/zinc coated was a no-no in roasting.


I read the same thing yesterday in another thread. Funny thing about studies..I read that aluminum may be linked to Alzheimer's disease, kidney and bone problems. And you can always find half a dozen studies to list the harmful effects of coffee! (Don't forget that the Aussies released a study recently regarding the harmful effects of printers and toner ink. They say it's as bad as smoking!) Plus, isn't BBQing bad for us too?

Oh, there is some RTV in contact with the beans as well. I contacted Permatex about 3 weeks ago regarding the safety of the CURED product. There's plenty of information on RTV Red BEFORE it cures, but no mention about after. I let Permatex know the particulars of how I am using it, but have yet to hear back.

:|

...but, this is the 1st generation and proves that the method works. I had planned on stepping up to an all aluminum version, but didn't in the initial phase because of cost.

Best of luck, Alchemist!

Oh, hey, your Zen II heat elements look like those electric charcoal starters. Is that what they are?


CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Hopper drawing[391].jpg
Edited by seedlings on 07/31/2007 9:41 PM
 
Alchemist
Top  #37 Print Post
Posted on 08/01/2007 7:23 AM
OK, chemist hat on...

The difference lies in the known and documented toxicity level of zinc vs aluminum. Zinc (and copper) are both quite toxic and are regulated in drinking water for instance. You can use copper in cooking because it is used cool and alkaline, but you are warned never to use it hot and acidic. Zinc is the same way in regards to heat. Aluminum on the other hand is still in the circumstantial evidence category. "may be linked" is I think the phrase that is used most. The full toxicity is just not documented, if it even exists. The last theory I heard with Alzheimer's is that the extra levels of aluminum are results of the condition, not the cause.

As for you system, you could bake off the zinc coating. That heat gun up close should do the trick. It is just a surface coating. I don't know the particular RTV you used, but from what I recall, you should be fine with it after it is cured.
 
Dan
Top  #38 Print Post
Posted on 08/01/2007 10:42 AM
Thanks, John, safe roaster design is something that we are considering, not only materials, but mechanical and electrical safety, too.
 
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ginny
Top  #39 Print Post
Posted on 08/01/2007 11:04 AM
hey dude, your wearing the wrong T-Shirt in the video!!

good work.

ginny

s:8s:8
 
Alchemist
Top  #40 Print Post
Posted on 08/01/2007 11:38 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:
Thanks, John, safe roaster design is something that we are considering, not only materials, but mechanical and electrical safety, too.


No problem. I know it is so tempting to use that easy to work with galvanized sheeting in all those great shapes. That was why I mentioned copper also - so easy to work with, but toxic if in the wrong place.
 
seedlings
Top  #41 Print Post
Posted on 08/01/2007 11:40 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:
Thanks, John, safe roaster design is something that we are considering, not only materials, but mechanical and electrical safety, too.


I had asked (Ginny) several weeks ago for a list of criteria used for judging, in addition to what is listed in the official rules thread. I didn't get any more specific judging insight. Perhaps when you do a future roaster contest there might be a more detailed list.

I was wanting to know the criteria on which the roatsters will be judged... listed is:

1) Capacity in pounds/ounces
2) Type of heat (electric, propane, natural gas, other)
3) Type of agitation (drum, air, spoon, other)
4) Roasting time at maximum designed load
5) Roaster temperature at finish of max load
6) Explain in detail the process of roasting coffee with your roaster.

But I was wondering if there are any others.
-ease of use
-asthetics
-computer controlled
-cost
-originality
-repeatability...etc.

Because, for example, who can say that "propane is better than electric" or "a drum is better than a spoon." Perhaps I need to invest more time in making it look pretty, if that's real important. Or maybe I should add another heat source, then it'll be the hottest. I"m not willing to change everything to be the best at every category, but if there's something I've seriously left out, I'd like to know. Someone could make a Hottop/Stir crazy look like a REAL UFO and maybe that's what the judges are looking for.

CHAD
 
ginny
Top  #42 Print Post
Posted on 08/02/2007 3:16 PM
CHAD:

I did respond to you and mentioned that all of the items you addressed:

-ease of use
-asthetics
-computer controlled
-cost
-originality
-repeatability...etc. <<<

along with our initial list were clearly things we would look at when judging the contest.

it would be impossible to add every item, for every entrant, to a list of what we or anyone could possibly look for in a roaster.

Nothing is better then anything else CHAD.

There is no right or wrong here.

ginny
Edited by ginny on 08/02/2007 4:26 PM
 
seedlings
Top  #43 Print Post
Posted on 08/15/2007 7:00 PM
Here's the rebuilt hopper out of aluminum instead of galvanized.

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Aluminum Hopper[415].jpg
Edited by seedlings on 08/15/2007 7:00 PM
 
seedlings
Top  #44 Print Post
Posted on 08/15/2007 7:01 PM
...And the inside

CHAD
seedlings attached the following image:
Aluminum Hopper Inside[416].jpg
 
seedlings
Top  #45 Print Post
Posted on 08/16/2007 7:34 AM
Thanks you Ed! I remember coming across homroaster.com just after I started roasting with a popper. I've always wanted to see your finished product on the air roaster!

Your comments about my roaster are well taken. A large part of why I posted in the first place was for comments. I like to have second and third angles to give insight. I remade the hopper when I found out that galvanized was "bad," but didn't post it because I didn't want it to influence the judging since it wasn't done before the threads were locked. And one of my high priorities was building cost, therefore the OSB board. I watched as my house was built and the HVAC ducts and cold air returns are made of galvanized and, in places, OSB filler between the trusses to create the air seal, so that's one reason I figured those materials might be OK. I didn't like the loud noise, nor the additional plugs requred, but, again, 1lb for less than $100 was my original goal. My new goals are Safety, Cost, Ease of Use and Simplicity (aka repeatability).

There aren't words enough to fully express my gratitude to you all!

CHAD
 
Dan
Top  #46 Print Post
Posted on 08/16/2007 7:43 AM
Chad, This design was both intriguing and problematic for me. I like how you solved the air supply problem byh ganging two blowers in tandem. And, then there's the problem of twice the noise with two universal motors screaming at once. This isn't a complaint at you, but rather illustrates what I've discovered in my pressure bed tests, that there is no good off-the-shelf blower for our purposes. They either lack volume or pressure.

Having said that, I do think you have solved the nagging problem of what do homeroasters do when our supply of poppers runs out. I can see many homeroasters trading in their poppers to build this design instead.

The removable carafe is a great idea; you'd think that a hot-air roaster would cool beans quickly, but they don't.

Dan
 
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seedlings
Top  #47 Print Post
Posted on 08/16/2007 9:37 AM

Quote

Dan wrote:
Chad, This design was both intriguing and problematic for me. I like how you solved the air supply problem byh ganging two blowers in tandem. And, then there's the problem of twice the noise with two universal motors screaming at once. This isn't a complaint at you, but rather illustrates what I've discovered in my pressure bed tests, that there is no good off-the-shelf blower for our purposes. They either lack volume or pressure.

Having said that, I do think you have solved the nagging problem of what do homeroasters do when our supply of poppers runs out. I can see many homeroasters trading in their poppers to build this design instead.

The removable carafe is a great idea; you'd think that a hot-air roaster would cool beans quickly, but they don't.

Dan


Regarding the beans cooling... perhaps I misunderstood you, but this design DOES cool quickly. It's another HUGE reason I like this method over others - that is, the cooler is built in! The bean temperature is down to under 150F in about 30 seconds. Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but once the beans are to the roast I want, I shut the heat off and hold a screen (pictured earlier on in this thread) on top of the hopper, then close the damper and the beans circulate as violently as I want them to. Cool. Fast.

On the topic of blowers, I have no use for the built-in fans of the heatguns, so there's no "tandem"-ness to this design. I really only wanted the heatguns' heat elements because the blower is more than powerful enough on it's own (again, making cooling a snap). The only reason I used the whole heatguns was to keep the design in the "hey, I could do that in my garage" factor in play. I figured disassembling them or purchasing and wiring separate elements would make the design more complicated and, therefore, less desireable.
Oh, I will soon have a solution to the noise problem ;)

You have been a tremendous help. I've read several of your comments and threads, including the monster "Fans - Fluid bed roasters" and reread until my eyes ache. !Muchas gracis mi amigo!

One other thing, I have 3 poppery IIs (1 of them modified) plus a nice Hamilton Beach popper, and a modified breadmaker...the fun never runs out!

CHAD
Edited by seedlings on 08/16/2007 9:40 AM
 
Dan
Top  #48 Print Post
Posted on 08/16/2007 10:58 AM
Chad, that's good to know that the leaf blower is powerful enough, it should open up some designs for people.

The nice thing about bare nichrome heaters like in hot air guns is that they cool off quickly. Now that you explain it, I can see how yours would solve the cooling problem.

I've built a few sound enclosures at work. I typically use a two-fold method. First, build the enclosure out of some heavy material like 3/4" particle board. Then, line the interior with sound absorbing foam.

I also create serpentine baffled inlets and outlets, all foam lined, or course. You would add a baffle in front of your damper, which is where a lot of noise is coming from, not to mention your leaf blower inlet. Why not make a bigger box and move the leaf blower inside?

I don't know if it will let you hear cracks, but it'll make roasting more enjoyable.
 
Web
seedlings
Top  #49 Print Post
Posted on 08/16/2007 9:30 PM
One thing to note about the standard egg-crate-foam (often used in packaging) as "sound absorbing" is its flamability. Highly flamable. There are some very dead former members of the band Great White who will attest to its flamability (burned down a club they were playing in in just a couple of minutes!) I know this because my other hobby is playing, writing and recording music. I did extensive research about cheap sound deadening material for my home studio. I ended up using a rigid fiberglass insulation from Owens Corning 705 series. It is high temperature tolerant, and actually used in industrial mechanical sound reduction. Another thing is that egg-crate-foam only absorbs a very small range of high frequencies, plus it doesn't absorb them very well. As a test, light a small piece with a lighter, then pull the flame away. If it continues to burn... bad, bad, bad.

CHAD


CHAD
 
EddieDove
Top  #50 Print Post
Posted on 08/17/2007 8:54 AM
Chad,

There are several aspects of your entry that I really liked.

First, you took a novel approach to the fluid bed roaster at home. I remember when you started working on this and would ask questions. I am sure glad you persisted. Grin

Second, and I do hope you take this the right way, is the fact that it is elegantly simple. That aspect alone opens it up to a large group of fellow home roasters that could duplicate your design. s:2
Third, in comparison to most fluid bed roasters on the market, is the large batch size. c:1

Well done, Chad! I hope you will keep yours updated and continue to detail your modifications and improvements

Congratulations! s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2s:2
Edited by EddieDove on 08/17/2007 11:09 AM
Respectfully,

Eddie Dove

The South Coast Coffee Roaster
vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Reference
http://southcoast...gspot.com/
 
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