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Is oxygen necessary for the brewing water?
Syncopadence
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 03/17/2019 5:15 AM
Just wondering if dissolved oxygen plays a role in brewing. Does it help with extraction/flavor/anything one way or the other?
 
renatoa
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 03/17/2019 8:34 AM
When you boil water, the first bubbles you see are air, i.e. dissolved gases.
So when you are brewing there is almost no gas in the water to influence extraction.
I would rather suspect the CO2 from the grounds, if fresh grounded.

A notice, if you reboil already boiled water, bubbles may not form.
Beware, this can lead to explosive boiling !
So if no thermometer, don't look for bubbles as a sign that the water is ready for brewing... you can risk a splash of boiling water in the face !
 
Syncopadence
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 03/17/2019 10:43 AM
So is it better/worse/neutral to boil the water to remove dissolved oxygen, or is some dissolved oxygen beneficial?
 
JitterzZ
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 03/17/2019 2:27 PM

Quote

Syncopadence wrote:

So is it better/worse/neutral to boil the water to remove dissolved oxygen, or is some dissolved oxygen beneficial?

Proper water for brewing coffee: "8. The water should be well oxygenated. Water with little dissolved oxygen results in a flat tasting cup. If using bottled water, it?s a good idea to incorporate oxygen by vigorously shaking your water before brewing. If you manually heat your water (ie. don?t use autodrip machine) then take care not to over boil the water because as the water boils, it releases its dissolved oxygen". https://www.muggs...ing-coffee
Destructive Myths: The Dissolved Oxygen Hypothesis http://hotwaterma...xygen.html
Aerated coffee https://jimseven....ed-coffee/
The Free Trick to Getting the Most Flavor Out of Your Coffee https://www.popsu...e-40346547
 
Syncopadence
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 03/18/2019 3:10 PM
Cool thanks! And if anyone is interested, here is a graph of dissolved oxygen in water as it comes up to a boil. It appears to come out of solution much faster than I thought.
Syncopadence attached the following image:
tapatalk_1548454582918.png
 
JitterzZ
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 03/18/2019 3:45 PM
woohoo
 
Wiz Kalita
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 4:04 AM

Quote

Syncopadence wrote:

Cool thanks! And if anyone is interested, here is a graph of dissolved oxygen in water as it comes up to a boil. It appears to come out of solution much faster than I thought.

I think you just killed a couple of myths. But this is quite slow and the oxygen has a lot of time to escape, is it possible to repeat the experiment with heating in less than 5 minutes?
 
renatoa
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Posted on 03/19/2019 4:59 AM
Is very weird science what I read above... so after degassing of water, which is a natural process, by heating... bring back oxygen by whatever method which means the water will cool... and obviously re-oxygenation of water is not something anyone can do in their kitchen... else would already have available appliances for this job.
 
Wiz Kalita
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 5:53 AM
Since the solubility of oxygen drops by an order of magnitude from room temperature to 95? and to zero at the boiling point, I guess you'd have to brew your coffee, let it cool down and re-oxygenate it. I really think dissolved oxygen is overrated.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-solubility-water-d_639.html
 
JitterzZ
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 6:34 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Is very weird science what I read above... so after degassing of water, which is a natural process, by heating... bring back oxygen by whatever method which means the water will cool... and obviously re-oxygenation of water is not something anyone can do in their kitchen... else would already have available appliances for this job.

I don't know if the devices really work, but they do exist: https://youtu.be/... Pour coffee in it and then enjoy a refreshing iced coffee? Roflmao
https://www.googl...oxygenator
So the cooler the coffee the more Oxygen it can hold onto? So it's a trade off: More heat less Oxygen. I guess this is where the cupping slurp comes in jazzyhands
Edited by JitterzZ on 03/19/2019 7:03 AM
 
renatoa
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 7:01 AM
Why not using a wine aerator then... Grin
 
JitterzZ
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 7:04 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Why not using a wine aerator then... Grin

Aerated coffee https://jimseven....ed-coffee/
 
Syncopadence
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 4:48 PM

Quote

Wiz Kalita wrote:

Quote

Syncopadence wrote:

Cool thanks! And if anyone is interested, here is a graph of dissolved oxygen in water as it comes up to a boil. It appears to come out of solution much faster than I thought.

I think you just killed a couple of myths. But this is quite slow and the oxygen has a lot of time to escape, is it possible to repeat the experiment with heating in less than 5 minutes?


I wouldn't be able to personally. This graph was given to me from someone else's experiment. If I had a DO meter I'd be happy to, even if only for my own curiosity.
 
Syncopadence
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 4:55 PM
For anyone interested in aerating at home I use this coupled with a disposable oxygen tank from home depot
https://www.morebeer.com/products/oxywand-oxygenation-kit-05-micron.html

If you want something a little cheaper where you don't need an oxygen tank, here's something simpler
https://www.morebeer.com/products/aeration-system.html

Again, you'd have to use it with cooler liquid around room temp or cooler since it dissolves better at lower temps, but it'll get the job done at home.

However this might be overkill? Is there a certain number in parts per million that you should shoot for? Aggressive shaking in a closed container at cool temps after a few minutes will get you about 8ppm DO.
 
Syncopadence
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 03/19/2019 5:00 PM

Quote

Wiz Kalita wrote:

Since the solubility of oxygen drops by an order of magnitude from room temperature to 95? and to zero at the boiling point, I guess you'd have to brew your coffee, let it cool down and re-oxygenate it. I really think dissolved oxygen is overrated.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-solubility-water-d_639.html


But is it useful for extraction? It seems to be useful for flavor based on what I'm reading about cupping, but is it important to have in the water while it's brewing?
 
snwcmpr
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 03/20/2019 10:16 AM
Then, we all should be doing cold brew with fresh spring water.

Oh, that is right, sometimes I do. Grin
--------------
Backwoods Roaster
"I wish I could taste as well as I wish I could roast."

As Abraham Lincoln said "Do not trust everything you read on the internet".
 
DrHenley
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 02/04/2020 12:02 PM
Something rattling around in the recesses of my memory from way waaay waaaay back.

Goes something like this:

Making pour-over coffee with 200?F water allows for some retained oxygen and a brighter taste, while 212?F water doesn't have any oxygen to speak of left and makes flat coffee. When the bubbles start to appear that's when you pour it over the coffee, not when they've all gone and not when it's boiling.

I don't remember the source, but I took it as Gospel. I've noticed that using 200? water makes for some very vigorous bubbling up of the grounds. I think it makes a difference in taste, but that is very subjective and could be due to expectations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AeroPress, Capresso On The Go single cup drip, Moka Pot
DIY Gas Fired perforated drum using TermoPro meat probe as bean probe (very accurate), Aillio Bullet R1 V2
A morning without coffee is like a marriage without a honeymoon.
 
renatoa
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 02/04/2020 2:34 PM
Bubbles can form well before the boiling temperature point, as low as 160 F = 71C, which surely is not recommended for brew.
In my kettle they appear and lift up in the 80-90C range, well below 200F = 93C.
I am brewing at 85-88 C = 185-190 F, but based on taste preference, not on bubbling Grin
So, check your bubbles range with a thermometer though, before using them as a hint.

And don't forget water is boiling at different temperatures with altitude Grin

Quote

For every 500-foot (150 m) increase in elevation, water's boiling point is lowered by approximately 0.5 ?C. At 8,000 feet (2,400 m) in elevation, water boils at just 92 ?C (198 ?F).
- by wikipedia
Edited by renatoa on 02/05/2020 2:35 AM
 
DrHenley
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 02/04/2020 3:12 PM
Like I say, it was a long time ago, maybe 50 years ago, and my memory has never been that great, LOL. The 200 degree part is what I definitely remember.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AeroPress, Capresso On The Go single cup drip, Moka Pot
DIY Gas Fired perforated drum using TermoPro meat probe as bean probe (very accurate), Aillio Bullet R1 V2
A morning without coffee is like a marriage without a honeymoon.
 
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