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Immersion Style Fluid Bed Concept
CK
An old concept that was shelved for various design complications.

Edited by CK on 04/22/2019 7:15 PM
 
JitterzZ
Wouldn't really call that Centrifugal. More like inverted fluid bed. Similar to this:

 
Gullygossner
Looks like a fairly elegant design. What were the hangups with it?
 
CK

Quote

Gullygossner wrote:

Looks like a fairly elegant design. What were the hangups with it?


Heat management... The parts all need to be heat resistant, as all the components sit on and in the area for main exhaust air. This is great for preheating the air and efficiency, but it also complicates the design for safe handling when the roast is done. The whole mass of material would be 230C or more until cooled sufficiently. Also, the chaff system let's small particles through the mesh and those get sucked into the intake... not good.
 
allenb

Quote

CK wrote:

An old concept that was shelved for various design complications.


Dude, this is an amazing accomplishment! This is the most tightly compact and at the same time fully fluid packed bed roaster I've ever seen. Regardless of what ever issues you may be experiencing in getting this design to perform to your expectations, you need to keep working on this. This has the potential to be the next wave of roaster design.

Keep this going forward and keep us updated!

Allen
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
Centrifugal part is missing, there is no rotation of beans, thus no centrifugal forces in this design.
This detail does not make it less worthwhile, yet ...
 
CK
This version has the bean mass of torus type shape moving in a poloidal fashion around a central location. I made other iterations of the diffuser head that make the bean mass rotate as well, more accurately as centrifugal. I may post a video of the other setup.

Here's a page that shows the idea of the movement I was going for on this prototype. Red arrow for bean movement.

https://en.m.wiki...d_poloidal
 
allenb

Quote

allenb wrote:
This is the most tightly compact and at the same time fully fluid packed bed roaster I've ever seen.
Allen


For clarity, my use of the term "packed bed roaster" doesn't fit with what appears to be the true definition:

"Packed-bed roasters are batch-type roasting systems with a tangential flow of hot gas through specially designed louvers which whirl the beans in a spinning packed-bed pattern". ...

and I'm not sure what the term should be for a non-spouting bed fluidbed or a fluidbed that operates in a highly dense fluidized fashion. I guess this could be considered a true fluidbed compared to a conventional spouting bed roaster.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
Beyond definitions, regarding compactness, is this more compact than a popcorn ?
How much greens we see there? 150 grams, my guess...

What blower are you using ? Sounds like a RC model EDF... Grin
 
allenb

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Beyond definitions, regarding compactness, is this more compact than a popcorn ?



There's a big difference between a somewhat levitated spinning column of beans with minimal intermixing that typically occurs within a popper and the properly mixed and well fluidized bed seen with the design in CK's video
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
CK

Quote

renatoa wrote:
What blower are you using ? Sounds like a RC model EDF...


Correct. 50mm EDF. You can see the setup description on the actual YT page.
 
CK

Quote

allenb wrote:

There's a big difference between a somewhat levitated spinning column of beans with minimal intermixing that typically occurs within a popper and the properly mixed and well fluidized bed


Thanks Allen. You'll likely enjoy seeing the other iterations that were built using different RC's and and different diffuser heads. All the bean movement desired, with capacity of 500g+ depending on system components!

Other concepts were temporarily abandoned to complete the transparent roaster... I needed a good functioning roaster before continuing to experiment with R&D. Now that one machine is finished, it's on with exploring new proof of concepts.
 
CK
The word centrifugal has been removed from the title. The idea here, as always, is to share new ways or concepts to roast beans. Happy roasting!
 
JitterzZ
Still a cool idea. And as allenb points out, you got something there! Perhaps name your roaster exactly what you were going for: Poloidal bed roaster? Or simply Immersion bed roaster?
In the video that I linked to above it seems similar to your concept, but has there ever been any roasting method exactly like it?
rockon
Edited by JitterzZ on 04/22/2019 9:09 PM
 
CK

Quote

JitterzZ wrote:

In the video that I linked to above it seems similar to your concept, but has there ever been any roasting method exactly like it?


Not that I'm aware of. Although classic spouting fluid beds work just fine, I'm interested in new concepts that work in a home environment. One thing about traditional spouting fluid beds is their abnormal height requirements. Not great for indoor use in a kitchen. Even my transparent roaster is too tall to fit under the range exhaust hood, and that with a blower located beside the RC as opposed to under the RC. (For that reason I need to pipe my exhaust out an open window... extra challenges in -20- to -30C winters.) So I was exploring how to reduce overall height and keep things compact and fully indoors, thus the radial airflow design that lowers the RC height by about 50% or greater, while at the same time being able to increase green bean charge. Kind of a win win situation is what was hoped for.
 
JitterzZ
Definitely worth pursuing. I'm currently without the means to do any experimenting myself, but when I can, I will definitely give your idea a go. I also have some ideas of my own that I plan on experimenting with in the future involving roast chambers and heating methods. One of my roast chamber ideas I've already dubbed Sivetz 360, for the round Sivetz style roaster that I envision. This forum is definitely a treasure trove of great info!

How about Radial Bed Roaster?
Your reasoning behind your design is sound. That much coffee in such a small form factor can definitely dominate the home roaster market! CK.0ThumbsUp
Edited by JitterzZ on 04/22/2019 11:45 PM
 
DanT
Would an infrared hot plate be a useable heat source for this?
 
renatoa
As a second source, but not the only, imo...
 
CK
Just came across this today...
 
renatoa
Yep, looks similar to something already posted here.
Check also novoroaster concept, which also "injects" hot air from the top into bean mass, using a pipe.
Actually, two pipes, mounted under some degrees, to create the rotating field.

https://youtu.be/...vBLZA?t=16
 
DanT
CK, would you mind sharing some pics of the diffuser head? Of course other pics of this machine are welcome.
 
CK
It's a simple tube with vanes at the bottom to direct the airflow radially. Different angles and geometries were experimented with for optimal flow based on the airspeed and roast chamber vs. diffuser head sizes. Roast chamber shapes were also experimented with. The heater ideally would be mounted within this tube to shed radiant heat to the beans as well.
CK attached the following image:
diffuser_head.jpg
 
DanT
Perfect, thank you! That gives me a good, general idea - will begin to experiment.
 
CK
Here's a section view of the complete idea.
CK attached the following image:
section_radial_roaster.jpg
 
timfur
I had seen the Novo version before and styled a potential roaster on the basic concept. This uses a 5" OD x 7" chamber (140 ci). I haven't put a fan in yet as I was just playing around with the concept. There could be a recirc valve inserted between the cyclone and the plenum intake.

But by my calculations this would be able to do a half-pound, but I have yet to build one so my knowledge is purely theoretical at the moment. But I'm liking the design so far.
timfur attached the following image:
roaster_25.jpg
 
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