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KKTO build questions***FOR SALE***
Gullygossner
Top  #26 Print Post
Posted on 02/11/2020 2:40 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Thoughts on this motor?



Is a KTYZ as those I recommended in the post #10.
Used many in various builds for three years, no failure so far.


I second the KTYZ motor. I?m using one on my kkto setup. I?ve only got 7-8 roasts under my belt on this setup but I was pleased with the mounting options, easy wiring, availability and price.
 
Koffee Kosmo
Top  #27 Print Post
Posted on 02/11/2020 5:48 PM
The main thing with agitation speed and agitator design is more about the mixing of the beans
Depending on the torque on the motor this is what happens mechanically
1) When beans are green the motor speed drops from its stated speed due to the weight
2) Then gradually speeds up to full speed at about the 3/4 point of the roast

Be aware that it?s most I repeat ?most ? important that the beans are mixed completely while agitating ( you don?t want the agitator to be pushing a mass of beans in circles )

So the design of the agitator is just as important

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://homeroast...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
 
Web
Alaroast
Top  #28 Print Post
Posted on 02/11/2020 8:13 PM
I've found what I believe is a good deal on a heavy duty pot and bought it. Now on to the motor. What is the consensus for motor RPM if I use the wire wisk design? I'm aiming for 60 RPM but will 50 RPM be enough?
I'm leaning towards the synchronous KTYZ gear motor, 110 VAC.
Alaroast attached the following images:
pot_1.jpg pot2.jpg
Edited by Alaroast on 02/11/2020 8:26 PM
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
renatoa
Top  #29 Print Post
Posted on 02/12/2020 12:46 AM

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

?TIP? When looking at pots sets it?s best to use pot sets with welded handles

KK


These are not welded... but wondering why this reason... Grin
 
Koffee Kosmo
Top  #30 Print Post
Posted on 02/12/2020 6:00 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

?TIP? When looking at pots sets it?s best to use pot sets with welded handles

KK


These are not welded... but wondering why this reason... Grin


It?s easier to slide in the false floor
The rivets make it harder but not impossible

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://homeroast...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
 
Web
Alaroast
Top  #31 Print Post
Posted on 02/12/2020 6:50 AM

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

?TIP? When looking at pots sets it?s best to use pot sets with welded handles

KK


These are not welded... but wondering why this reason... Grin




It?s easier to slide in the false floor
The rivets make it harder but not impossible

KK

I was wondering why it was suggested to use pots with welded handles and figured it had something to do with clearance; I'll work around that issue. I chose this pot because of the thicker walls and it seemed like it would help with heat retention once heated up. I was looking at the cheap stainless pasta pots in the $30 range but decided against them because of poor construction and wanted to keep cost down. I picked this one up used for $30 shipped so not a bad price.
Now back to the motor RPM question. Is 50 RPM enough or should I go with 60 RPM?
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Koffee Kosmo
Top  #32 Print Post
Posted on 02/12/2020 7:01 AM
Go 60 RPM is my advice
Or 70 RPM if available

Also be aware that the volume of the total roast chamber should be no more than 9 lt and no lower than 7 lt

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://homeroast...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
 
Web
Alaroast
Top  #33 Print Post
Posted on 02/13/2020 9:28 AM

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Go 60 RPM is my advice
Or 70 RPM if available

Also be aware that the volume of the total roast chamber should be no more than 9 lt and no lower than 7 lt

KK

It looks like 60-70 RPM's is the sweet spot recommended for KKTO's but I am having difficulty currently finding any 60KTYZ motors in that range in the US. I have found 50 or 80 RPM motors on the Bay. Would 80 be too fast?

I did find a Hurst 3204-024 60 RPM geared motor reasonably priced but still have to wire in a capacitor.
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
renatoa
Top  #34 Print Post
Posted on 02/13/2020 10:26 AM
eBay US probably not, but China yes, 72 RPM for 110V 60 Hz
 
Alaroast
Top  #35 Print Post
Posted on 02/14/2020 4:49 PM
I received the pot in post 28 above today and encountered a slight problem. The handles for the inner pot come in contact with the turbo oven. Don't really want to get any sort of spacer ring so probably off with the handles. Other than that, a really nice heavy pot that should work well.
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Koffee Kosmo
Top  #36 Print Post
Posted on 02/14/2020 6:09 PM

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

I received the pot in post 28 above today and encountered a slight problem. The handles for the inner pot come in contact with the turbo oven. Don't really want to get any sort of spacer ring so probably off with the handles. Other than that, a really nice heavy pot that should work well.


Place each handle in turn into a bench vice and bend the handle
Or a similar method

It?s steel it will bend to your will

KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://homeroast...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
 
Web
Alaroast
Top  #37 Print Post
Posted on 02/14/2020 6:41 PM

Quote

Koffee Kosmo wrote:

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

I received the pot in post 28 above today and encountered a slight problem. The handles for the inner pot come in contact with the turbo oven. Don't really want to get any sort of spacer ring so probably off with the handles. Other than that, a really nice heavy pot that should work well.


Place each handle in turn into a bench vice and bend the handle
Or a similar method

It?s steel it will bend to your will

KK


Great minds think alike, that's exactly what I just did after realizing how hard those rivets are. Bent them just enough for clearance taking into account thickness of silicone tubing seal that will be installed on rim. Motor should arrive tomorrow so should be drilling pots once I come up with final design of shaft extension. Exciting stuff coming together. Great design KK!
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Alaroast
Top  #38 Print Post
Posted on 02/18/2020 6:55 AM
Attached is a picture of the motor I ended up purchasing. It is a Hurst 3204-024 and turns at 60 RPM. I mounted it through the top of my roasting station with shaft coming through a .5" hole drilled through the surface. The motor is secured to the bottom side of the work surface. I repurposed a drill bit extension (6" long) that accepted the .25" motor shaft with set screws. I drilled 2 small holes through the upper end of the extension for the whisk wires. The whisk wires were looking promising but only gave me an agitator with "blades" 180 degrees apart which didn't seem to be enough for the 60 RPM's. I looked around my shop and remembered I have a spool of 1/8" SS wire so I refashioned some nice wire blades that look like they will be perfect (pictures coming). What I like about this motor is that if it binds up, it will auto reverse just like the stir crazy. Of course it bound up a few times while forming and checking the fit of the agitator blades until I got the right fit. Right now I'm waiting on high heat silicone tubing and the right size motor capacitor to get here before I try a roast. I also need to figure out the false bottom thing.
I did dump in about 700 gm of greens and turned on the motor. I threw a few roasted beans in with the mix to check the agitation level. Looks promising.
Alaroast attached the following image:
motor_6.jpg
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Alaroast
Top  #39 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2020 6:55 AM
Another question comes to mind as I am finalizing the build of my roaster. I've read through most of the threads multiple times and am still wondering about the false bottom placement. There has been mention of total roast chamber volume not exceeding a certain size. Would it be safe to say that if I am using a pasta pot setup, then I would simply place the false bottom as close to the bottom of the suspended insert as possible? I haven't measured anything yet but thinking there is only about 1" or 25 mm between bottom of pot and bottom of insert so is a false bottom even needed when using a pasta pot setup?
Meanwhile, below are pictures of agitator and bean cooler. It's a 5 gallon bucket with lid recessed into top of roasting station. I cut a hole in lid for colander insert. I have another lid with suction hose used for pulling roasted beans from roaster. Under the tabletop, I have a 2" hole drilled into the side of bucket where the shop vac hose goes. I then place the second lid on top of first lid and turn on the vac which easily sucks down the lids and 1" hose sucks beans into cooling chamber.
Alaroast attached the following images:
cooler1_5.jpg agitator_3.jpg
Edited by Alaroast on 02/21/2020 7:14 AM
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
renatoa
Top  #40 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2020 10:56 AM
If not high temp silicone, that tube will melt sucking hot beans.
 
Alaroast
Top  #41 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2020 12:18 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

If not high temp silicone, that tube will melt sucking hot beans.


I thought about that but they move pretty fast through there. I'll give it a try and see what happens. But you're right, those beans are very hot. Hopefully as long as I don't work too fast and allow plenty of room in tube for beans to move freely without clogging it, should be fine. They move at pretty high velocity, so much so, when I tried a few already roasted beans, some of them shattered when they hit the cooling tray. Might have to rethink that idea.
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
renatoa
Top  #42 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2020 3:16 PM
Did an experiment, to merge the dump/cool phases into a single step, i.e. cooling in the roast pan itself. So I replaced the TO with a big fan, blowing air from above, and tried to exhaust the hot air from inside the oven with a normal vacuum cleaner.
The regular flexible tube of vacuum cleaner melted in couple of seconds.
 
Alaroast
Top  #43 Print Post
Posted on 02/21/2020 3:46 PM

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Another question comes to mind as I am finalizing the build of my roaster. I've read through most of the threads multiple times and am still wondering about the false bottom placement. There has been mention of total roast chamber volume not exceeding a certain size. Would it be safe to say that if I am using a pasta pot setup, then I would simply place the false bottom as close to the bottom of the suspended insert as possible? I haven't measured anything yet but thinking there is only about 1" or 25 mm between bottom of pot and bottom of insert so is a false bottom even needed when using a pasta pot setup?

So before we get too far away from my question, what are the thoughts on the false bottom question above?
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Mbb
Top  #44 Print Post
Posted on 02/22/2020 7:31 AM

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Quote

renatoa wrote:

If not high temp silicone, that tube will melt sucking hot beans.


I thought about that but they move pretty fast through there. I'll give it a try and see what happens. But you're right, those beans are very hot. Hopefully as long as I don't work too fast and allow plenty of room in tube for beans to move freely without clogging it, should be fine. They move at pretty high velocity, so much so, when I tried a few already roasted beans, some of them shattered when they hit the cooling tray. Might have to rethink that idea.


Hmmm
I been doing similar for years
I use plastic bilge pump hose
Works fine
Doesnt even get hot

My beans are cool enough to stir by hand when they hit the receiver. No fragility issues either

The lid is a food cover from walmart $4
Fits into ss bowl with holes punched in bottom via nail
Shopvac provides suction

Might need cross brace inside bucket not to collapse it.

Beans are chaff free.......totally

images2.imgbox.com/96/cf/4cItYgem_o.jpg
Edited by Mbb on 02/22/2020 7:46 AM
 
renatoa
Top  #45 Print Post
Posted on 02/22/2020 8:46 AM
plastics... and plastics... Grin
 
mkane
Top  #46 Print Post
Posted on 02/22/2020 10:57 AM
and more plastic
Always learning
 
Alaroast
Top  #47 Print Post
Posted on 02/22/2020 1:25 PM

Quote

Mbb wrote:

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Quote

renatoa wrote:

If not high temp silicone, that tube will melt sucking hot beans.


I thought about that but they move pretty fast through there. I'll give it a try and see what happens. But you're right, those beans are very hot. Hopefully as long as I don't work too fast and allow plenty of room in tube for beans to move freely without clogging it, should be fine. They move at pretty high velocity, so much so, when I tried a few already roasted beans, some of them shattered when they hit the cooling tray. Might have to rethink that idea.


Hmmm
I been doing similar for years
I use plastic bilge pump hose
Works fine
Doesnt even get hot

My beans are cool enough to stir by hand when they hit the receiver. No fragility issues either

The lid is a food cover from walmart $4
Fits into ss bowl with holes punched in bottom via nail
Shopvac provides suction

Might need cross brace inside bucket not to collapse it.

Beans are chaff free.......totally

images2.imgbox.com/96/cf/4cItYgem_o.jpg

So I made my maiden roast today using the clear tubing to vacuum beans from roasting chamber. Worked like a charm with no melting. Still need to tweak a few things on the roaster though.
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
Koffee Kosmo
Top  #48 Print Post
Posted on 02/22/2020 4:25 PM

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Quote

Alaroast wrote:

Another question comes to mind as I am finalizing the build of my roaster. I've read through most of the threads multiple times and am still wondering about the false bottom placement. There has been mention of total roast chamber volume not exceeding a certain size. Would it be safe to say that if I am using a pasta pot setup, then I would simply place the false bottom as close to the bottom of the suspended insert as possible? I haven't measured anything yet but thinking there is only about 1" or 25 mm between bottom of pot and bottom of insert so is a false bottom even needed when using a pasta pot setup?

So before we get too far away from my question, what are the thoughts on the false bottom question above?


The false bottom is approx 10mm or 1/2? under the base of the perforated pot with insulation sandwiched in between

i.postimg.cc/XZQBhVYG/268710-D1-1-D80-4-D60-BBC7-49-AD7-EDD77-D0.jpg

i.postimg.cc/phShWq8P/4587-D433-C570-4-D86-A9-AC-8-E5041342-ECB.jpg

i.postimg.cc/S2RYbwnZ/4-C3-E472-D-891-A-45-BD-A587-5210-C047-A810.jpg

i.postimg.cc/679GY7tx/5-BDF5941-B692-4-B43-A4-EC-D9-E92-C826-A34.jpg


KK
I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information
https://homeroast...ad_id=1142

https://docs.goog...lide=id.i0
Blog - http://koffeekosm...gspot.com/

Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex,
(KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster.
 
Web
mkane
Top  #49 Print Post
Posted on 02/23/2020 11:33 AM
A picture tells a thousand words. Will any type of insulation work as long as it's flameproof? I'm going to attempt to duplicate that shaft for the agitator. Thanks
Always learning
 
Alaroast
Top  #50 Print Post
Posted on 02/23/2020 1:38 PM

Quote

mkane wrote:

A picture tells a thousand words. Will any type of insulation work as long as it's flameproof? I'm going to attempt to duplicate that shaft for the agitator. Thanks


I just ordered some kaowool online for insulating the false bottom. The piece I ordered was 1" thick and 12"x24" so should be perfect doubled and trimmed to fit. $17 shipped so not bad.
Fiorenzato Bricoletta Espresso Machine, Obel EB Grinder, USRC 3kg roaster
 
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