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11/26/2020 6:37 AM
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11/25/2020 3:35 PM
Hey everyone! I am new to the home roasters forum. Mainly here to read and learn! I’d also love to get advice about modifying my roaster (a Huky 500)
11/10/2020 5:29 PM
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Hello All, New here, started with an air popper, now using fresh roast 800. I'm here to learn and connect with others Thank you
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Page 1 of 2: 12
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 Flour sifter agitators stuck on beans
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/13/2020 11:34 PM
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 1/4 Pounder  Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Just tried a test run of a flour sifter / popper roaster, and unfortunately beans got stuck on the agitators of the flour sifter several times per rotation. Not really operable until I find a solution. I'm a little surprised, as flour sifter roasters are so common but I haven't heard of this problem very much. I saw in another thread that one person bent the agitators a lot, which prevented stuck beans. Are there other solutions, or is this the standard way to fix this problem?  
Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| Koffee Kosmo |
Posted on 05/14/2020 1:39 AM
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 Administrator  Posts: 1543 Joined: December 31, 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia |
Use a spring ( about 4mm dia ) to go over the wire sections that spin KK I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information https://forum.homeroasters.org/forum/...ad_id=1142 https://docs.google.com/presentation/...lide=id.i0 Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com/ Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex, (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster. |
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| allenb |
Posted on 05/14/2020 6:28 AM
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 Administrator Posts: 3302 Joined: February 23, 2010 Location: Longmont, Colorado |
Quote This may work but I think one of the issues with a sifter is this. As the curved rods rotate toward the screen, the clearance between the rods and the structure decrease to the point where the beans get hung up in between and bind. I had that occur when I experimented with it years ago and seemed to be a tough one to get around. Maybe raising the rotating element up a bit and installing the springs would allow a less rigid wiping action and prevent binding? 1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
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| Koffee Kosmo |
Posted on 05/14/2020 6:41 AM
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Administrator Posts: 1543 Joined: December 31, 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia |
Quote allenb wrote: This may work but I think one of the issues with a sifter is this. As the curved rods rotate toward the screen, the clearance between the rods and the structure decrease to the point where the beans get hung up in between and bind. I had that occur when I experimented with it years ago and seemed to be a tough one to get around. Maybe raising the rotating element up a bit and installing the springs would allow a less rigid wiping action and prevent binding? That is correct I had a similar agitator and bean binding issue and solved it with the addition of springs KK I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information https://forum.homeroasters.org/forum/...ad_id=1142 https://docs.google.com/presentation/...lide=id.i0 Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com/ Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex, (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/14/2020 12:02 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
 I took the flour sifter apart a few times this morning, didn't really do much of anything, just brainstorming. Unfortunately, now the sifter does not work. Rotating the handle/axle causes very little, if any, movement of the agitator. Video here - https://i.giphy.com/media/cPm30gq611B.../giphy.mp4 With any beans in, it does not move at all. What a bummer. I had two sifter roasters planned, parts all ordered. If anyone has thoughts, I'm all ears -- spent the rest of my roaster budget on these parts. I'm guessing there is not enough contact between the axle and the agitator, so the axle turns but the agitator doesn't. I'm not sure I see a way to change that though. Edited by mtbizzle on 05/14/2020 12:59 PM Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 05/14/2020 2:11 PM
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1 1/2 Pounder  Posts: 1473 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
What kind of collars are you using for agitator ? Are they part of the original sifter, or a DIY job ? I would drill a hole in the collar, thread it and use an imbus screw to secure the collar to the axle. As are this pieces: http://www.valuehobby.com/5mm-wheel-c...ollar.html |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/14/2020 6:08 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Quote renatoa wrote: What kind of collars are you using for agitator ? Are they part of the original sifter, or a DIY job ? I would drill a hole in the collar, thread it and use an imbus screw to secure the collar to the axle. As are this pieces: http://www.valuehobby.com/5mm-wheel-c...ollar.html Hey Renatoa -- I fixed the issue of the agitator not rotating. This is what I am using now (both of the nuts are DIY/added):  But... Back to square 1. It will turn, but beans get stuck, constantly. It does not work to agitate the beans. See this video (turn audio on) -- https://i.imgur.com/WcMabAd.mp4 It seems that beans are often getting stuck against the wall, like this:  .. so I'm not sure that KK's suggestion of springs to pull down the mesh screen will resolve the problem Others have suggested spinning fast, and spinning in reverse to loosen the beans and present sticks. I can't seem to spin fast because of stuck beans. Spinning in reverse does seem to clear the stuck bean, but having to do this multiple times per turn, it is not an effective way to agitate... 
Edited by mtbizzle on 05/14/2020 6:17 PM Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| JackH |
Posted on 05/14/2020 6:37 PM
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 Administrator Posts: 1749 Joined: May 10, 2011 Location: Boston, Massachusetts |
I think KK was suggesting to get springs large enough to slip over the metal arms of the agitator. I did this with my early turbo roaster and it helped. I got them from McMaster-Carr and I think they were stainless. The photo below was from 2011 when I built my first roaster. I used stainless steel welding rod with stainless steel springs over it. The added springs kept the beans from getting stuck under the paddles.
JackH attached the following image:
Edited by JackH on 05/14/2020 6:51 PM ---Jack
KKTO Roaster. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/14/2020 8:35 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Quote JackH wrote: I think KK was suggesting to get springs large enough to slip over the metal arms of the agitator. I did this with my early turbo roaster and it helped. I got them from McMaster-Carr and I think they were stainless. The photo below was from 2011 when I built my first roaster. I used stainless steel welding rod with stainless steel springs over it. The added springs kept the beans from getting stuck under the paddles. I'm afraid I don't understand where the springs are supposed to be. Where are they supposed to attach to? The rounded arms of the agitator, that rotate? Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| Gullygossner |
Posted on 05/14/2020 9:33 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 77 Joined: January 06, 2019 |
The suggestion would be to wrap the half circle arms of the agitator, I roughly sketched over the areas recommended to wrap with a spring. The springs allow for some forgiveness between the mesh and the agitation arms. https://imgur.com/a/5zUMSzr Edited by JackH on 05/15/2020 3:17 AM |
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| Mbb |
Posted on 05/14/2020 10:24 PM
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Newbie  Posts: 28 Joined: February 22, 2020 |
Looks like there's a lip there at the rim which catches beans? If that is the case, can it be hammered flat all the way around? |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/15/2020 12:03 AM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Quote Gullygossner wrote: The suggestion would be to wrap the half circle arms of the agitator, I roughly sketched over the areas recommended to wrap with a spring. The springs allow for some forgiveness between the mesh and the agitation arms. https://imgur.com/a/5zUMSzr Oh! I see. Re-reading KK's post, that makes sense, my interpretation was way off. Is the idea to decrease the gap between agitator wires & wall/mesh of the sifter... so that beans can't fit into the space, and get stuck? My worry would be too much contact w/ the screen -- is that not an issue? I will definitely try this, though I'm not sure where to find a spring like this. Home depot only has things like heavy duty extension springs. Quote Looks like there's a lip there at the rim which catches beans? Yes! That is definitely part of the problem. Quote If that is the case, can it be hammered flat all the way around? Hmm I'll investigate. Looking at it, I don't see why not, but frankly it's a little hard for me to judge. That lip is the joint between the cylinder and the mesh at the bottom of the sifter, honestly no clue if hammering it might cause an issue with the joint. Thanks all for your help/suggestions! Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| Koffee Kosmo |
Posted on 05/15/2020 4:38 PM
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Administrator Posts: 1543 Joined: December 31, 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia |
Sorry for the late reply The spring goes over the whole wire This is how I solved the same issue with a slightly different agitator  KK I home roast and I like it. Designer of the KKTO
Roaster Build information https://forum.homeroasters.org/forum/...ad_id=1142 https://docs.google.com/presentation/...lide=id.i0 Blog - http://koffeekosmo.blogspot.com/ Bezzera Strega, Mazzer Robur Grinder, Pullman Tamper Convex, (KKTO) Turbo Oven Home Roaster. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/15/2020 10:42 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Huh, I think I see --- extension springs attached to agitator arms that are across from each other. Pulling the arms/wires together some. I was able to bend the agitator wires, at the advice of other folks. It's ugly, but works better. Beans still get stuck frequently. Given all the issues, I tried to make paddles as per here -  This is from the make magazine guide for Larry Cotton's HG/FS roaster. Edit: Found success today w/ the paddles. Was having difficulty drilling holes in the aluminum. Sanded, filed, and secured with lock washers/nuts. Edited by mtbizzle on 05/18/2020 6:15 PM Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/18/2020 6:02 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Got it rollin' with some persistence and help. Some concern that lock washers + nuts may not keep the paddles in place over time, but I figure I can adjust positioning after roasts. Did first roast today using the 5 cup sifter atop a Poppery II. Used 135 of natural yirgacheffe that I have had difficulty roasting well (it is grade 4). Typically quite uneven. 135g of natural yirgacheffe in. Dry stage seemed quite uneven, and I could tell the roast was taking too long. Dry end around 7 min. No cracks for quite some time. I put the Poppery II lid on top of the sifter to retain heat. Still no cracks at about 16:30, so I dumped the beans into the popper. 1C began shortly thereafter, and was quite short. About 1:20. Drop not long after 1C end (we're talking upwards of 19min at this point). 116g out, 14% loss.  I picked out a few defects prior to roast, and removed about 50 quakers / underroasted beans. As mentioned above, it always seems to come out quite uneven, looking much like this. I'm guessing this is going to be baked, no good, due to stalling out in the mid phase. Clearly I need to increase max temps inside the sifter. Ideas include: -Use my stainless steel funnel atop the sifter to retain heat. -Remove the fan speed controller (had the popper wired through it, but had it at full power). -Maybe apply foil tape to outside of sifter. -Would increasing charge size retain more heat? Have heard conflicting things. Any other ideas? I hear flour sifter popper builds used to be a thing, discussed back on Sweet Maria's forum. Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| Gullygossner |
Posted on 05/18/2020 8:26 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 77 Joined: January 06, 2019 |
Quote mtbizzle wrote: 135g of natural yirgacheffe in. Dry stage seemed quite uneven, and I could tell the roast was taking too long. Dry end around 7 min. No cracks for quite some time. I put the Poppery II lid on top of the sifter to retain heat. Still no cracks at about 16:30, so I dumped the beans into the popper. 1C began shortly thereafter, and was quite short. About 1:20. Drop not long after 1C end (we're talking upwards of 19min at this point). 116g out, 14% loss. This weekend I attempted to use a poppery 1 heat/fan unit as the heat source on my KKTO style setup. I had similar experience in not being able to achieve roasting temperature’s. I had a larger bean mass (600g) and have the outer shell of the roaster insulated using a towel. 10 min in I was just passed the yellowing stage and my trend line was far off anything that would be drinkable so I pulled the plug on that idea. I suspect air poppers can’t achieve the same outlet temperatures as heat guns since the retention time over the heating coils is less and I suspect the airflow is higher. |
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| mtbizzle |
Posted on 05/18/2020 9:52 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 88 Joined: April 22, 2020 |
Quote I wish the old Sweet maria's thread was still accessible. Wonder why it was removed. I've heard poppers were used with flour sifters, though. I'm sure it would be useful to hear what they did. Was it a Homeroasters thread that was removed? Edited by JackH on 05/19/2020 8:22 AM Roast: Nostalgia popper
Grind: Bunn G3, Comandante c40 Brew: aeropress, v60, la pavoni professional & flair espresso, Hoffmann french press, 'Scott Rao' water Ask me about Tea! |
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| renatoa |
Posted on 05/19/2020 9:58 AM
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1 1/2 Pounder Posts: 1473 Joined: September 30, 2016 |
Quote Gullygossner wrote: This weekend I attempted to use a poppery 1 heat/fan unit as the heat source on my KKTO style setup. Any chance to see a picture of this setup, you made me curious  Judging strictly by numbers, 600 grams shouldn't be too much for 1200W of a typical popper... a full size TO do this job with 1300 W... but different heat transfer, indeed... |
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| Gullygossner |
Posted on 05/19/2020 12:03 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 77 Joined: January 06, 2019 |
Quote renatoa wrote: Quote Gullygossner wrote: This weekend I attempted to use a poppery 1 heat/fan unit as the heat source on my KKTO style setup. Any chance to see a picture of this setup, you made me curious Judging strictly by numbers, 600 grams shouldn't be too much for 1200W of a typical popper... a full size TO do this job with 1300 W... but different heat transfer, indeed... I believe the poppery 1 is 1500w so I figured it would have no problem supplying enough heat. I have torn the lid apart already to either modify it to fit a heat gun or allow the poppery 1 unit to sit lower in the lid, closer to the bean mass. I'll try to paint a picture of how it was setup though, stainless steel cut to fit over the kkto pots. One hole with a hinged lid for bean loading and viewing and another hole big enough for the poppery 1 with the plastic portion of the popcorn chamber removed, just the bottom fan section and metal mixing/heating element section bolted to the lid blowing in.
Gullygossner attached the following image:
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| Gullygossner |
Posted on 05/19/2020 12:13 PM
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1/4 Pounder Posts: 77 Joined: January 06, 2019 |
Quote mtbizzle wrote: Quote I wish the old Sweet maria's thread was still accessible. Wonder why it was removed. I've heard poppers were used with flour sifters, though. I'm sure it would be useful to hear what they did. Was it a Homeroasters thread that was removed? I believe this is the unit being refered to but I can't seem to get to the forum linked in the article. https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/librar...os-aguayo/ Edited by JackH on 05/19/2020 1:01 PM |
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