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renatoa
06/08/2023 1:33 AM
welcome to forum, 56hkswg9xc and JBue

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Bellwether Roaster
CharcoalRoaster
https://www.bellw...r-details/

Anyone seen one of these before? Just came across it. Interesting concept in that it reclaims heat like many of our home built roasters but cleans the air and emits no smoke, chaff, etc.

Looks like traditional drum agitation with electric driven heat source and onboard roasting software that says you can preload the roast profile instead of making adjustments throughout the roast.

What I like about it?

(1) Zero-emissions recirculating heat concept and
(2) Apparent ease of loading, unloading, etc. as seen in the video.

What I don't like about it?

(1) Over-automation to the point where people can roast a bunch of coffee without really knowing anything about roasting coffee was the head roaster uploads all the desired profiles. Snobbish and elitist I know but I really do value knowing/learning about what you're doing instead of pushing play on a fully automatic machine.

(2) Machines aren't for sale only for lease STARTING AT $1150/mo Shock that's $14k/year!!! Insanity... the volume required to even make that back when you could buy a good used machine capable of 2-5kg is insane to me.
 
renatoa
Yes, was been announced some two years ago:

https://dailycoff...mit=Search

At the moment of announcement the hype was high, people rave about roasting becoming a self service activity, like a vending machine... but times (or pandemic) didn't confirmed.

Recirculating is done somewhat in any TO based machine. If you look closer, this looks as a vertical laundromat style TO machine, don't you think ? Grin
Even for home Nesco issued a catalytic smoke burning solution many years ago. So nothing new under the sun.

Easy of handling... as in vending machines ? Grin Worked in the early 2000 for an Italian vending machine manufacturer company... incredible the level of robotics that you can find inside such boxes.
 
ACEMBL
Just out of interest, who was the Italian vending machine company?

I have been following the Bellwhether development with some interest. I?m not 100% convinced it scratches an itch but we are going to have to change from plastic packaging and commercial gas roasting before too long.
 
renatoa
No more exist today, a small company in Vicenza. At least I didn't found them on Gmaps in the same location.

There are a lot such companies in Italy, every town is surrounded with industrial areas with small facilities, many are family businesses, dozens of employees, who manufacture third party assemblies for the automotive or other industries giants.
 
renatoa
I see a Bellwether unit in this shop, are they on an increasing trend of popularity?

https://dailycoff...e-upgrade/
 
renatoa
Has launched V2 series, an upgraded model:

https://bellwethe...m/product/

Upgrades seems cosmetic: 24-inch built-in touchscreen with new roasting software, armless cooling tray, and other not detailed "efficiency and durability upgrades".
 
renatoa
More developments:
https://bellwethe...e.com/hub/ - allows operating machines remotely
https://bellwethe...on-demand/ - online marketplace
 
allenb
Interesting roasters. I like the UN agenda 30 technocratic era friendly features, no evil fossil fuels and supposedly scrubs most of that pesky CO2! Totally "sustainable".

All joking aside, its interesting how companies sales departments tout their low carbon footprint appliances by going electric but when you do the real deep dive, most electric power plants are burning coal or natural gas with more undesirable exhaust emissions than if we ran our heating and cooking equipment and automobiles on natural gas, propane and petrol.

But, with the fast approaching full adoption of agenda 30 climate/environmental rules and regulations, gas appliances will be forced out and fully electric will be the only options for us.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Yasu
I read this with great interest.
My roaster is also a 3kg drum roaster.
I use LPG gas for the base heat for profile control and PID control with electric heaters for the fine tuning part.
(LPG 70% : Electricity 30%)
The plan is to separate the control and gradually change it so that the LNG part can be immediately replaced by electric heaters when fossil fuel restrictions become stronger in the future.
I had a hard time choosing between LNG and LPG, but I chose LPG because I thought it would not be good to generate water during combustion.
It may not be a good choice from a carbon neutral point of view, but�

When it comes to hydrogen fuel, will the roasting method that takes into account the amount of water contained in the hot air during roasting be a topic of discussion in the future?
(Is it necessary to sort out the way of thinking since some people are roasting with heated steam water by injecting water in the middle of roasting?)
 
renatoa
in the middle of roasting we are talking about 150C temperature, i.e. 4 bars pressure steam... which once released, drop instantly under 100C... thus actually cooling the beans... does such "roasting" method really exists ? :confused:

LE: actually, after watching a clip where coffee is deep fried using oil in a friteuse... nothing is impossible... Shock
Edited by renatoa on 11/11/2022 12:18 PM
 
Yasu
I'm sorry, I didn't express myself correctly.
It was heated steam water, not water.

http://www.flavor...-moji.html
https://patents.g...189835A/ja
http://www.nanaco...
Edited by Yasu on 11/11/2022 4:25 PM
 
CharcoalRoaster

Quote



LE: actually, after watching a clip where coffee is deep fried using oil in a friteuse... nothing is impossible... Shock


Here you go Ren! Is this the clip?

https://www.youtu...6y_3KR7IV4
 
renatoa
You got it Shock
 
renatoa

Quote

allenb wrote:

Interesting roasters. I like the UN agenda 30 technocratic era friendly features, no evil fossil fuels and supposedly scrubs most of that pesky CO2! Totally "sustainable".

All joking aside, its interesting how companies sales departments tout their low carbon footprint appliances by going electric but when you do the real deep dive, most electric power plants are burning coal or natural gas with more undesirable exhaust emissions than if we ran our heating and cooking equipment and automobiles on natural gas, propane and petrol.

But, with the fast approaching full adoption of agenda 30 climate/environmental rules and regulations, gas appliances will be forced out and fully electric will be the only options for us.


Anoth...er... crack in the wall...
https://dailycoff...the-p12-e/

Someone should tell them that Germany step back on electric cars, due to network overcharging, and is opening new coal mines...
 
allenb
Yeah, that's another issue no one wants to talk about within the so-called green new deal.

Another very unfortunate outcome of the unnecessary shift to electric vehicles is the huge loss of life and inhumane exploiting of children in the Republic of Congo Cobalt mining operations for our electric vehicle batteries. All of the wealthy elites in tech companies in California and the northeast states are well aware of the suffering and death of these kids and teens but look the other way.

https://cslaborne...%ef%bf%bc/
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
ACEMBL
I was only reading the other day that the wonderful salt flats in Bolivia are going to be mined for their Lithium by the Chinese. There’ll be widespread exploitation of the indigenous population, environmental poisoning and corruption. Why can’t people ride bicycles to the café to get their skinny soya lattes? Jajaja

The big coffee players are moving their polluting old equipment to countries of origin where they’re still below their carbon quota. I doesn’t solve anything just helps with the greenwashing. And I bet they’re not paying the same labour rates either.
 
allenb

Quote

ACEMBL wrote:

I was only reading the other day that the wonderful salt flats in Bolivia are going to be mined for their Lithium by the Chinese. There’ll be widespread exploitation of the indigenous population, environmental poisoning and corruption. Why can’t people ride bicycles to the café to get their skinny soya lattes? Jajaja

The big coffee players are moving their polluting old equipment to countries of origin where they’re still below their carbon quota. I doesn’t solve anything just helps with the greenwashing. And I bet they’re not paying the same labour rates either.


That's too bad about Bolivia. It's unfortunate that all of our favorite "green" businesses and corporations, who continually proclaim their moral and virtuous caring for mother earth and the little guy, farm out all of their icky industrial manufacturing operations to China who leaves a trail of death and destruction where ever they operate.
I think I see more and more similarities between our current society and the citizens of The Capitol in hunger games. "Panem et circenses".
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
Fun never ends...

https://bellwethe...-hoffmann/
 
ACEMBL
Interesting PR stunt. I’m sure he had a nice time. I hope he planted lots of trees to CO2 offset his flights from the UK and backGrin

The Bellwether Mk2 is a nice looking bit of kit, but using 4.5kw to warm up means that you’ve got to do a fair number of back-to-back roasts for it to be worthwhile. 0.3 kw per kg per roast (presumably light roast with low altitude beans 3kg load) isn’t bad, although again, presumably that’s just the roast cycle not cooling too.
 
Spyderman24-7

Quote

ACEMBL wrote:

Interesting PR stunt. I’m sure he had a nice time. I hope he planted lots of trees to CO2 offset his flights from the UK and backGrin

The Bellwether Mk2 is a nice looking bit of kit, but using 4.5kw to warm up means that you’ve got to do a fair number of back-to-back roasts for it to be worthwhile. 0.3 kw per kg per roast (presumably light roast with low altitude beans 3kg load) isn’t bad, although again, presumably that’s just the roast cycle not cooling too.


Interesting for the tree huggers, but I'll have to call B.S. on their claim to being the first coffee roasted by sunlight. Before I built my setup I did indeed roast each bean individually outdoors with a magnifying glass. Took quite awhile to get 1 lb done, but did indeed happen.
 
renatoa
Surely is BS because it simply breaks some thermodynamic laws...
The specific heat of green coffee was found to be around 1400 J/kgK, at room temperature, with a steady rise up to 4000 J/kgK until 120°C up, with a return to the start value about 245C degrees. So an average of about ... say 2400 J/kgK.
A Joule is one watt per second, thus 2400J / 300 Watts results 8 seconds required to increase the temperature of one kg of greens by one degree, using 300W, as stated...
To bring the beans into FC, at 200 C degrees, you need 8*200 = 1600 seconds = more than 25 minutes!
In very ideal conditions, no losses...
Edited by renatoa on 02/25/2023 11:51 AM
 
allenb
"To prove the possibility of electric, distributed roasting, James asked to do something that had never been done before – become the first person ever to roast coffee using sunlight by harvesting a day’s solar power and connecting it to a Bellwether Roaster. "

At present, China manufactures over 90% of the worlds solar panels. Toxic waste from the manufacture of and later disposal of solar panels is believed to exceed all other energy forms including nuclear. In addition, China is up to its old tricks of using forced labor for capture and processing the raw materials as well as in the manufacturing process.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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