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Part 6 - Cooling tray
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/11/2007 7:01 AM
6 Cooling system
a ) Cooling tray - round or square (or other) - Removable for bean removable or open slot for in edge?
b ) Stirring or not ( SC motor? )
c ) Fan for cooling (WB P1 maybe?)

Here is what I have come up with so far. See what you think. We can take it in a different direction if you want, but I think this keeps it pretty simple.

Highlights:

1) 10" x 3" cake pan (ss?) with removable bottom as the main cooling tray
2) 10" round piece of perf for the bottom (unless you want to drill 100 holes or more in the bottom
3) Removable for easy bagging of coffee
4) Dan's paint stirring motor for agitation.
5) Stirring attachment permanent in the cooling tray (we do need to decide on the shape of the vanes)
6) Dan's motor has a nice cut away fitting that will accept a pin a rod nicely that will be on the lower part of the stirring attachment.
7) If you have not noticed, I keep wanting to use a P1 motor, but it is only because they rock and I have a couple. I have a P1 mounted sideways for space issues. It might be able to go next to the motor upright.
8) I want the front kind of flat (rounded edges) for potential controls. At least the air flow levers I have designed (that you have not seen).

Well?
Alchemist attached the following image:
cooling tray[507].jpg
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/12/2007 12:08 PM
If we don't go with the P1 motor (that are a touch hard to come by, but feasible), I like this one a lot.

An inexpensive ($7.95) tangential blower. I think it would be a breeze to work into the design.
Alchemist attached the following image:
tangentblower[508].jpg
Edited by Alchemist on 09/12/2007 12:09 PM
 
David
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Posted on 09/16/2007 2:48 PM
This tangential blower looks good to me. I will order it unless you have another idea in the next day or two.

BTW, is it way out of the question to use something like this for our convection motor? The price certainly seems right.

To use something like this, what would be we have to do?
Of course, we'd have to put some distance between the wheel and the motor because of the heat. Would we also have to change the blowing capacity? the wheel? the ducting?

Anything else? Or is it just unfeasible?

Also, how does a tangential blower differ from a centrifugal blower in terms of CFM and head pressure?

:(
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/17/2007 7:19 AM
I see no reason you could not order this for our cooler. It should fit in nicely.

Good questions.

The reasons (and I did consider them) we can't easily use this for our convection are two. One is that there are bearings where the shaft passes through the frame, and they are not heat proof. 2nd, this thing is going to be pretty loud and move way too much air for the convection portion.
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/19/2007 3:55 PM
A little more detail on the stirring part of the cooling system.

The motor (Dan's) has a nice little notched hollow tube attachment on the shaft. I figure we take a rod and put a pin in one end. One fits the shaft (and just slips off and on for pulling the bowl to bag the beans), the other takes the stirring vane attachment. Small flanged bushing for the shaft to ride in. A couple stainless steel washers to keep stuff smooth, cotter pins to hold it together and we are set.

What do you think?
Alchemist attached the following image:
cooling stirrer[527].jpg
Edited by Alchemist on 09/28/2007 6:28 PM
 
David
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Posted on 09/20/2007 2:42 PM
This looks fine to me.

Dan has found another one of these paint stirrer motors and said he would send it to me. So, I think we will be set.

We still need to find a general source for that kind of motor for our readers.
 
David
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Posted on 09/20/2007 2:52 PM
I ordered the tangential blower pictured above.
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/21/2007 7:07 AM
Thanks Dan, and good to hear David. We are definitely getting parts together.

BTW, I had the motor fitting backwards. It has the slotted tube. We will drill the shaft and insert a pin to mate with it. I will update the drawing at some point.
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/28/2007 11:38 AM
I realized we have all the major parts for this now. What do you say about making this a test bed for a number of things?

This should be pretty simple to build. It will test out how we communicate, what you think of my style of building, and let you get some hands on.

Assuming you are good for this (we have to start somewhere), I want to start with the last item and build around it. The cake pan. We want something like this 12" bottomless cheesecake pan What do you think of the price? For simplicity do you want to go with that or take a piece of sheet metal and bend it up? I would show you how to bend it up. It would be the same technique you will use other places. Your call if you can find it cheaper. I found one in a thrift store for $2 at one point. Stainless or aluminum is your call also.

In addition, I would recommend sourcing (not buying yet) some perf for the bottom (in lieu of drilling hundreds of holes) and 1" or 3/4" aluminum angle 1/16" thick. 2 8' pieces should do it.

What say you sir? Hopefully it will go right onto the roaster, but regardless you will have a nice stand alone bean cooler.
Edited by Alchemist on 09/28/2007 11:39 AM
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 09/28/2007 11:52 AM
Another option if we want to drop to 10" is an angel food pan. Much less expensive. Thoughts?
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/01/2007 7:25 AM

Quote

David wrote:
This tangential blower looks good to me. I will order it unless you have another idea in the next day or two.

BTW, is it way out of the question to use something like this for our convection motor? The price certainly seems right.



I know you are still looking around for motors for the convection system. Are you game for taking this one apart? See what the shaft diameter looks like - see if we can match it to an adapter for a wheel? The price is right.

Also, you mentioned having concerns (somewhere) about this tangential blower not blowing enough - worst case I think is we use it for a roaster cooling fan and fall back to the P1 idea. No wasted money that way. I also say Surplus supply has a larger one also. If I was on the ball, I would have suggested that one instead. In this case more is better.

Finally, give some thought to this first project (while you are thinking about everything else I wrote above) - do you want to build this in tandem together or see how well my drawings translate into something you can work with? In some ways I want to build it with you, but I am strapped on time at the moment. I have yet to mock up the drum for testing.

OK, ball's in your court. I can't start serious drawings and design until you decide how you want to proceed.
 
David
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Posted on 10/02/2007 1:48 AM
I ordered the 12x2 cheesecake pan your sourced above.

I will look for perf metal for the bottom this week.
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/02/2007 7:48 AM

Quote

David wrote:
I ordered the 12x2 cheesecake pan your sourced above.

I will look for perf metal for the bottom this week.


OK, I will take that as ease over price. Great. I am in the middle of a 3 day state assessment at the lab, but after that I will start drawings and we can get this going.

Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?
 
David
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Posted on 10/03/2007 2:22 PM

Quote

Alchemist wrote:Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?


After your visits are over, let's discuss the tandem option some more.

:(
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/03/2007 5:09 PM

Quote

David wrote:

Quote

Alchemist wrote:Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?


After your visits are over, let's discuss the tandem option some more.

:(


They are over and the lab is still in business and I am still employed!!!

Discuss away. What do you want to know?
 
David
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Posted on 10/07/2007 1:14 PM
Good. If you had lost your job, you'd get too far ahead of me on this project! s:5

I now have the 12x2 bottomless cheesecake pan, the tangential blower, and a paint-stirrer motor from Dan.

I also got the story on how these motors came to be available to us after getting so totally gummed up with paint pigments:

something about Dan trying to move the paint-stirring machine;
something about it being full of paint pigments and top-heavy;
something about gravity and fluid hydraulics....

s:8
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/08/2007 7:06 AM
OK, I will get this going. As this is instructive for everyone, I am going to put up a whole bunch of drawings that attempt to show my in progress thinking. That way you aren't just hit with "here is the design". In general, it goes in three or four stages.

1) Line drawings.

2) Fleshed out line drawings mostly to scale, showing specific attachments and in this case, the aluminum angle and its thickness

3) Scale drawings.

4) Deconstruction of the drawing for the exact pattern pieces we need and how they will go together, plus attachment (screw, rivet, etc) techniques

It sounds like a lot, but I suspect Dan gets what I am doing. When I say building the Zen I was not hard, in a way, this is what I meant. No one step was hard, but there was nothing unexpected at the end as I was following a simple set of drawings. You will be doing the same thing. No one step is tough. It's just the final project that makes it look bad. The "trick" is not to get overwhelmed by the whole project.

And with any design, if you don't know where you are going, you are never going to get there. I have this 100% fleshed out in my head. It is only a matter of putting it on paper, and getting the bench top dimensions.

See if you can picture this. It will be what you will see first. The "back" of the cooler will attach to the roaster, so will be flat. Basically the start of a 3D aluminum framed "box" about 14-15 " wide. Coming forward, about 7-8" (halfway point of the cake pan" will will curve around in a perfect semi circle around the cake pan so the front will look rather like half of a hat box. Vertical supports will give it height. Aluminum sheeting will wrap around it. Air gaps will be sealed with aluminum tape. That is the start to end mental picture.
 
David
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Posted on 10/08/2007 12:59 PM
You painted a very nice verbal picture. I could visualize that quite easily.
The tandem build is sounding better and better. s:2

BTW, I don't have a clear mental picture of how we will dump the beans after they are cooled. I would appreciate a description of that process also.
 
David
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Posted on 10/08/2007 1:14 PM
I just poured two pounds of freshly roasted Colombian Huila into the 12x2 cheesecake pan. It filled it about half-full. It was about 5 beans deep.
So I have two concerns now. :(

The first is that this pan may turn out to be too shallow.
I think the 12 inch diameter is very nice. However, with the motorized stirring/raking and the occasional hopping bean, it might be better to have a deeper pan. So, right now I am inclined towards returning the current pan in favor of one that is 3 inches deep.

The the second concern is that our tangential fan will not be able to push very much air through a bean mass an inch deep.

I know you will be testing all of this it out, so let me know what you think.
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/08/2007 1:50 PM
OK, I think we test the tangential blower and go from there. I agree without stirring, it would not stand a chance. But Dan's motor moves around 30 rpm. Air will be blowing nicely through the holes it create.

Somewhere I recall saying those links were to give you an idea what I was thinking about. No biggie. I agree. 2" is a bit shallow. I honestly didn't look at height, only width. 4" would be even better if you can find it. Yes, see what you can find. 3-4".

I am continuing to keep the p1 fan in mind. It does move air. You asked at some point about sending me parts. For the moment, keep the fan. You try yours. I will try the P1. The design won't change really.

Oh, and pouring. We are not going to attach the cake pan (cooling tray). The stir motor, stir vane junction will just fit together. The pan will just set in. When the beans are cool, you just left out the hole cooling tray and pour into what ever you want.
 
David
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Posted on 10/08/2007 8:42 PM

Quote

Alchemist wrote: I agree. 2" is a bit shallow. I honestly didn't look at height, only width. 4" would be even better if you can find it. Yes, see what you can find. 3-4".

I sent an email off to the vendor to see about exchanging.

Quote

Oh, and pouring. We are not going to attach the cake pan (cooling tray). The stir motor, stir vane junction will just fit together. The pan will just set in. When the beans are cool, you just left out the hole cooling tray and pour into what ever you want.

Amazingly (perhaps), I'm having trouble picturing that. :(
I won't tell you here all the odd pictures that are coming to my mind, but one of them involves digging under the hot rim of the cooling tray with my short fingernails to dig it out of the hole. :@
Does the motor come out with it? How about the stirring rake?
Would a handle on the cooling tray help?
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/09/2007 7:19 AM
Let's see if a picture is worth a 1000 words.

We could add handles, but with proper support, the stirring vanes would make a great handle.

Oh, and at the end, it will be COOL. No hot edges to burn your fingers on.
Alchemist attached the following image:
CT 1[532].jpg
 
David
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Posted on 10/09/2007 5:46 PM

Quote

David wrote:I sent an email off to the vendor to see about exchanging.


What a horrible experience with the folks at www.cakepancentral.com!! @

They have a NO RETURN policy, no exceptions. Shock
He even called me a bad name for trying to work out an exchange. :@:@

I heartily disrecommend these [anatomical expletive delected].
I hope they rot in [metaphysical location deleted].
David attached the following image:
nunnono[535].gif
 
David
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Posted on 10/09/2007 6:12 PM
Thanks for the drawing. I understand it now.

I found some 3" deep cheesecake pans with the removable bottom, but there weren't any 4" ones to be found. If found saucepans and stockpots, but no cakepans 12x4. Angelfood pans are that deep, but not of that diameter.

If we wanted to go with a 4" depth or whatever, how hard would it be to fabricate one to our own specifications?

Sorry for the rant about the bad service experience as cakepancentral.
David attached the following image:
puke[536].gif
 
Alchemist
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Posted on 10/09/2007 10:08 PM
That sucks.

I kind of feel bad you jumped on those and they are not quite right. What do you want to do? Go with those or see if we can find something else deeper?

I guess we need to be really sure from now on before we buy.

====

Now, I am NOT saying these are right, but I found these. 12" x 3 1/2". Not bottomless, but the more I think of it, eh, I think we could cut the bottom out or indeed just perf it ourselves. I bet you could find them locally with a little calling around to high end cooking stores.

What do you think?
 
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