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10/19/2021 6:22 AM
Welcome tarunk!

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Thanks for the addition to the group. Seriously considering building a drum roaster along the lines of oldgrumpus's. Love the design and craftsmanship.

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Part 6 - Cooling tray
6 Cooling system
a ) Cooling tray - round or square (or other) - Removable for bean removable or open slot for in edge?
b ) Stirring or not ( SC motor? )
c ) Fan for cooling (WB P1 maybe?)

Here is what I have come up with so far. See what you think. We can take it in a different direction if you want, but I think this keeps it pretty simple.


1) 10" x 3" cake pan (ss?) with removable bottom as the main cooling tray
2) 10" round piece of perf for the bottom (unless you want to drill 100 holes or more in the bottom
3) Removable for easy bagging of coffee
4) Dan's paint stirring motor for agitation.
5) Stirring attachment permanent in the cooling tray (we do need to decide on the shape of the vanes)
6) Dan's motor has a nice cut away fitting that will accept a pin a rod nicely that will be on the lower part of the stirring attachment.
7) If you have not noticed, I keep wanting to use a P1 motor, but it is only because they rock and I have a couple. I have a P1 mounted sideways for space issues. It might be able to go next to the motor upright.
8) I want the front kind of flat (rounded edges) for potential controls. At least the air flow levers I have designed (that you have not seen).

Alchemist attached the following image:
cooling tray[507].jpg
If we don't go with the P1 motor (that are a touch hard to come by, but feasible), I like this one a lot.

An inexpensive ($7.95) tangential blower. I think it would be a breeze to work into the design.
Alchemist attached the following image:

Edited by Alchemist on 09/12/2007 12:09 PM
This tangential blower looks good to me. I will order it unless you have another idea in the next day or two.

BTW, is it way out of the question to use something like this for our convection motor? The price certainly seems right.

To use something like this, what would be we have to do?
Of course, we'd have to put some distance between the wheel and the motor because of the heat. Would we also have to change the blowing capacity? the wheel? the ducting?

Anything else? Or is it just unfeasible?

Also, how does a tangential blower differ from a centrifugal blower in terms of CFM and head pressure?

I see no reason you could not order this for our cooler. It should fit in nicely.

Good questions.

The reasons (and I did consider them) we can't easily use this for our convection are two. One is that there are bearings where the shaft passes through the frame, and they are not heat proof. 2nd, this thing is going to be pretty loud and move way too much air for the convection portion.
A little more detail on the stirring part of the cooling system.

The motor (Dan's) has a nice little notched hollow tube attachment on the shaft. I figure we take a rod and put a pin in one end. One fits the shaft (and just slips off and on for pulling the bowl to bag the beans), the other takes the stirring vane attachment. Small flanged bushing for the shaft to ride in. A couple stainless steel washers to keep stuff smooth, cotter pins to hold it together and we are set.

What do you think?
Alchemist attached the following image:
cooling stirrer[527].jpg

Edited by Alchemist on 09/28/2007 6:28 PM
This looks fine to me.

Dan has found another one of these paint stirrer motors and said he would send it to me. So, I think we will be set.

We still need to find a general source for that kind of motor for our readers.
I ordered the tangential blower pictured above.
Thanks Dan, and good to hear David. We are definitely getting parts together.

BTW, I had the motor fitting backwards. It has the slotted tube. We will drill the shaft and insert a pin to mate with it. I will update the drawing at some point.
I realized we have all the major parts for this now. What do you say about making this a test bed for a number of things?

This should be pretty simple to build. It will test out how we communicate, what you think of my style of building, and let you get some hands on.

Assuming you are good for this (we have to start somewhere), I want to start with the last item and build around it. The cake pan. We want something like this 12" bottomless cheesecake pan What do you think of the price? For simplicity do you want to go with that or take a piece of sheet metal and bend it up? I would show you how to bend it up. It would be the same technique you will use other places. Your call if you can find it cheaper. I found one in a thrift store for $2 at one point. Stainless or aluminum is your call also.

In addition, I would recommend sourcing (not buying yet) some perf for the bottom (in lieu of drilling hundreds of holes) and 1" or 3/4" aluminum angle 1/16" thick. 2 8' pieces should do it.

What say you sir? Hopefully it will go right onto the roaster, but regardless you will have a nice stand alone bean cooler.
Edited by Alchemist on 09/28/2007 11:39 AM
Another option if we want to drop to 10" is an angel food pan. Much less expensive. Thoughts?


David wrote:
This tangential blower looks good to me. I will order it unless you have another idea in the next day or two.

BTW, is it way out of the question to use something like this for our convection motor? The price certainly seems right.

I know you are still looking around for motors for the convection system. Are you game for taking this one apart? See what the shaft diameter looks like - see if we can match it to an adapter for a wheel? The price is right.

Also, you mentioned having concerns (somewhere) about this tangential blower not blowing enough - worst case I think is we use it for a roaster cooling fan and fall back to the P1 idea. No wasted money that way. I also say Surplus supply has a larger one also. If I was on the ball, I would have suggested that one instead. In this case more is better.

Finally, give some thought to this first project (while you are thinking about everything else I wrote above) - do you want to build this in tandem together or see how well my drawings translate into something you can work with? In some ways I want to build it with you, but I am strapped on time at the moment. I have yet to mock up the drum for testing.

OK, ball's in your court. I can't start serious drawings and design until you decide how you want to proceed.
I ordered the 12x2 cheesecake pan your sourced above.

I will look for perf metal for the bottom this week.


David wrote:
I ordered the 12x2 cheesecake pan your sourced above.

I will look for perf metal for the bottom this week.

OK, I will take that as ease over price. Great. I am in the middle of a 3 day state assessment at the lab, but after that I will start drawings and we can get this going.

Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?


Alchemist wrote:Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?

After your visits are over, let's discuss the tandem option some more.



David wrote:


Alchemist wrote:Do you want to shoot for tandem building (much slower) or see how "official" drawings go with me instructing and you building?

After your visits are over, let's discuss the tandem option some more.


They are over and the lab is still in business and I am still employed!!!

Discuss away. What do you want to know?
Good. If you had lost your job, you'd get too far ahead of me on this project! s:5

I now have the 12x2 bottomless cheesecake pan, the tangential blower, and a paint-stirrer motor from Dan.

I also got the story on how these motors came to be available to us after getting so totally gummed up with paint pigments:

something about Dan trying to move the paint-stirring machine;
something about it being full of paint pigments and top-heavy;
something about gravity and fluid hydraulics....

OK, I will get this going. As this is instructive for everyone, I am going to put up a whole bunch of drawings that attempt to show my in progress thinking. That way you aren't just hit with "here is the design". In general, it goes in three or four stages.

1) Line drawings.

2) Fleshed out line drawings mostly to scale, showing specific attachments and in this case, the aluminum angle and its thickness

3) Scale drawings.

4) Deconstruction of the drawing for the exact pattern pieces we need and how they will go together, plus attachment (screw, rivet, etc) techniques

It sounds like a lot, but I suspect Dan gets what I am doing. When I say building the Zen I was not hard, in a way, this is what I meant. No one step was hard, but there was nothing unexpected at the end as I was following a simple set of drawings. You will be doing the same thing. No one step is tough. It's just the final project that makes it look bad. The "trick" is not to get overwhelmed by the whole project.

And with any design, if you don't know where you are going, you are never going to get there. I have this 100% fleshed out in my head. It is only a matter of putting it on paper, and getting the bench top dimensions.

See if you can picture this. It will be what you will see first. The "back" of the cooler will attach to the roaster, so will be flat. Basically the start of a 3D aluminum framed "box" about 14-15 " wide. Coming forward, about 7-8" (halfway point of the cake pan" will will curve around in a perfect semi circle around the cake pan so the front will look rather like half of a hat box. Vertical supports will give it height. Aluminum sheeting will wrap around it. Air gaps will be sealed with aluminum tape. That is the start to end mental picture.
You painted a very nice verbal picture. I could visualize that quite easily.
The tandem build is sounding better and better. s:2

BTW, I don't have a clear mental picture of how we will dump the beans after they are cooled. I would appreciate a description of that process also.
I just poured two pounds of freshly roasted Colombian Huila into the 12x2 cheesecake pan. It filled it about half-full. It was about 5 beans deep.
So I have two concerns now. :(

The first is that this pan may turn out to be too shallow.
I think the 12 inch diameter is very nice. However, with the motorized stirring/raking and the occasional hopping bean, it might be better to have a deeper pan. So, right now I am inclined towards returning the current pan in favor of one that is 3 inches deep.

The the second concern is that our tangential fan will not be able to push very much air through a bean mass an inch deep.

I know you will be testing all of this it out, so let me know what you think.
OK, I think we test the tangential blower and go from there. I agree without stirring, it would not stand a chance. But Dan's motor moves around 30 rpm. Air will be blowing nicely through the holes it create.

Somewhere I recall saying those links were to give you an idea what I was thinking about. No biggie. I agree. 2" is a bit shallow. I honestly didn't look at height, only width. 4" would be even better if you can find it. Yes, see what you can find. 3-4".

I am continuing to keep the p1 fan in mind. It does move air. You asked at some point about sending me parts. For the moment, keep the fan. You try yours. I will try the P1. The design won't change really.

Oh, and pouring. We are not going to attach the cake pan (cooling tray). The stir motor, stir vane junction will just fit together. The pan will just set in. When the beans are cool, you just left out the hole cooling tray and pour into what ever you want.
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