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New Fluid bed roaster- Design and modifications
CamMor89
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 06/10/2021 9:43 AM
Hi!

I've just ordered parts to make my own fluid bed roaster, but i'm struggling on finding out how to control it.
I've seen several builds, some use TC4/TC4+ or other similar options.

What I would like to do in the future is having a raspberry pi or something similar connected to a screen and control/monitor the roasting without having the necessity to use a computer/laptop. But for now having to connect computer is OK.

What I would like to know:
What do you recommend as program for roast-logging?
What kind of setup is the most stable/supported by home roasters/roasters in general?
What items would be necessary to control my setup?

I have a 24v DC motor as blower with a builtin controller (possible to control over TC4 or similar) and 3,3kW heating element.

I'm not afraid of any programming or if I have to weld, as I have done some of that before.

I will upload pictures, and links to the items I've bought if people are interested, and if it is a success share a video smile
Edited by CamMor89 on 11/20/2021 1:23 PM
 
wbbh
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 06/10/2021 5:46 PM
Watching. Mine is manually controlled so I'm no help.
 
renatoa
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 06/11/2021 12:54 AM
The simplest and most affordable manual control choice is probably a digital display SCR you can buy from Amazon, something like this:
https://www.amazo...ef=sr_1_12

For temperature measurement and data logging Artisan compatible, the answer is Mastech MS6514, no soldering, no tinkering, just plug and roast.

If you need an all in one solution, measurement and control, probably the obvious path is something from the TC4 universe, built in house or bought. but... at this small scale I don't think you need computer control, roasting for own consumption doesn't require the repeatability/consistency as a production workflow, imo ...

As a personal preference, after some years of trying a lot of things, what I need the least near my roaster is a computer screen. Grin

If you are skilled with electronics, then a project integrating a MS6514 and the SCR with an Arduino/ESP board would be an interesting challenge.
Edited by renatoa on 06/13/2021 8:34 AM
 
CamMor89
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 10/12/2021 1:09 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

The simplest and most affordable manual control choice is probably a digital display SCR you can buy from Amazon, something like this:
https://www.amazo...ef=sr_1_12

For temperature measurement and data logging Artisan compatible, the answer is Mastech MS6514, no soldering, no tinkering, just plug and roast.

If you need an all in one solution, measurement and control, probably the obvious path is something from the TC4 universe, built in house or bought. but... at this small scale I don't think you need computer control, roasting for own consumption doesn't require the repeatability/consistency as a production workflow, imo ...

As a personal preference, after some years of trying a lot of things, what I need the least near my roaster is a computer screen. Grin

If you are skilled with electronics, then a project integrating a MS6514 and the SCR with an Arduino/ESP board would be an interesting challenge.


Thank you for your reply!
I'm almost done with my build, going to solder it on Thursday and test it then if it work as plannedGrin.
For now I will control it manually with a switch to turn on/off the heating element, and a "dimmer" for the motor to regulate airflow, but my plan is to get a solution where I can measure,control and log in the future so that repeatability wont be a problem. I work as an electrician, so powering the unit wasn't difficult, but finding a way to control it using for example ESP32, Arduino, TC4 haven't been easy as I'm not familiar with programming units like that. But I love learning new things, so If anyone can point me to a guide for how/what to connect and program I would be grateful!
 
renatoa
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 10/12/2021 1:25 PM
https://homeroast...rowstart=0

Good luck ! But is too much trouble for a such simple machine as a popper.
Playing these days with a Fresh Roast wannabe chinese machine, I can tell you that a simple "profile" as: start at 50%, switch at 1:30 to 60%, then start at minute 3 to 75% and let there to the end, gives identical results as the most sophisticate profiles.
Connecting a computer for such task is just... more love for tinkering, than for roasting and enjoying coffee Grin
Edited by renatoa on 10/12/2021 1:34 PM
 
CamMor89
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 11/20/2021 1:24 PM
I thought of instead of making a new thread, I could just modify my original thread.

I've finally gotten most of the parts and welded them together. I will upload video if people want, and also make a part list if people are intersted (as I bought most of the things on AliExpress).

Now Im waiting for parts to make the roaster more "automatic" so that I can log roast and everything.
But I need help on placements on the sensors.
What I have thought:
T1- A 100mm K-temp 2mm thick sensors that will be welded in an angle
T2 and T3- A 25mm long K-temp 5mm thick sensors, mainly to measure temp in and out of the roast champer.
My question is: Is the placement of the sensors OK? I was thinking on just using T1 and T2, but should I use everyone?

[img]https://imgur.com/a/jjFLtmo[/img]
 
renatoa
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 11/20/2021 2:02 PM
The 2mm sensor will report you something unusable, the turbulence in a FB is too much to add a responsive sensor on top of this.
Conversely, you need an integrator/averaging sensor, with about 6 seconds response time.
The discussion can continue with a link to a recent post on mine on HB, exactly on same subject:
https://www.home-...ml#p828888
 
CamMor89
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2021 10:52 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

The 2mm sensor will report you something unusable, the turbulence in a FB is too much to add a responsive sensor on top of this.
Conversely, you need an integrator/averaging sensor, with about 6 seconds response time.
The discussion can continue with a link to a recent post on mine on HB, exactly on same subject:
https://www.home-...ml#p828888


Where would you place them? And how many? Does your TC4ESP have this solutions?
At the same time, wont the sensor if placed "center" of the mass measure average temperature since it gets air that has "passed trough" the beans (wont the beans absorb some of the heat, making the air "after the beans" cooler?)?
 
renatoa
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 11/22/2021 11:25 AM
As I wrote in the other post, would not place them at all, nowhere.
In a FB I would roast based on power profiling only, not feeling the need even for ET monitoring.

As you rightly noted above, where is the right beans temp spot, when the difference between bottom and top could be even 30 degrees?

Both solutions I wrote there, for connecting multiple PT and TC, does not required a special device, they connect directly to an existing reader/logger.
They are simply spreading the sensing area more than an usual sensor.
It's a spatial diversity solution, as in radio we have antenna diversity, that uses two or more antennas to improve the quality of a radio link.
 
CamMor89
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 11/23/2021 2:22 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

As I wrote in the other post, would not place them at all, nowhere.
In a FB I would roast based on power profiling only, not feeling the need even for ET monitoring.

As you rightly noted above, where is the right beans temp spot, when the difference between bottom and top could be even 30 degrees?

Both solutions I wrote there, for connecting multiple PT and TC, does not required a special device, they connect directly to an existing reader/logger.
They are simply spreading the sensing area more than an usual sensor.
It's a spatial diversity solution, as in radio we have antenna diversity, that uses two or more antennas to improve the quality of a radio link.


I don't have any reader/logger or (for now) any way to control the heater element as I'm building this myself and the heater is a 3.2kW heater element from a heating gun (used to warm vinyl). My plan was to either use a PID or TC4ESP and turn on/off the SSR that controls the heater element. Would just using the sensor marked on T3 be good enough to set max limit on air so that I dont scorch the beans? The beans won't be near the sensor there, so technically it would measure the temperature to the beans and use that as a starting point?
 
renatoa
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 11/23/2021 4:42 AM
"sensor marked on T3" ??? no idea what is this...

The sensor aimed to measure gases are hosted in a special flute or spring shaped sheath, as you can see below:
https://www.tegam...-Probe.jpg
https://m.media-a...SX522_.jpg

The closed tubes that are sold everywhere are for liquids, and less suitable for air measurements.
Even a dirty cut job of some slots done on a cheap chinese sensor, as in the attached image, give better results than a stock sensor.
...
renatoa attached the following image:
whatsapp_image_2020-09-20_at_132521.jpeg
 
CamMor89
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 11/23/2021 1:15 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

"sensor marked on T3" ??? no idea what is this...

The sensor aimed to measure gases are hosted in a special flute or spring shaped sheath, as you can see below:
https://www.tegam...-Probe.jpg
https://m.media-a...SX522_.jpg

The closed tubes that are sold everywhere are for liquids, and less suitable for air measurements.
Even a dirty cut job of some slots done on a cheap chinese sensor, as in the attached image, give better results than a stock sensor.
...


I uploaded a picture link as I don't know how to upload videos or photos ?

Here is the link:
https://imgur.com/a/jjFLtmo
 
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