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Is automated Artisan PID control of a drum roaster a "fool's errand"?
oldgrumpus
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/2021 11:40 PM
I would love to explore using Artisan's built-in PID control to automate and follow previously used profiles or profiles designed within Artisan. I don't see a lot of discussion about doing this on a drum roaster apparently because fluid bed roasters respond more quickly to control inputs. The roaster I built was inspired to a large extent from the Coffee-Tech Solar drum roaster which does have a PID control option. My understanding (maybe flawed...) is that it's a Fuji PID controller.

I'd appreciate any input y'all might have. Is it a "fools errand"? Has anyone used the Artisan PID to do what I'd like to do? Please chime in or steer me to any discussion of this if you can. I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
Build thread https://homeroast...post_38189
 
renatoa
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 08/22/2021 2:37 AM
In control theory (and practice) everything starts with the step response test.
https://en.wikipe...p_response
This shows a lot about the process behavior, and could provide the answer to your question.
Short story, I would preheat the machine to a stable state, as you do for normal charge, let it settle for at least a minute, then turn the gas up with a step at least 10% of your normal gas range.
Record the temperature evolution until it settle again, and post the log file. As data file, not image, please.

An alternative would be to ask the Artisan author for a profile following feature based on power input, not temperature. Would be much simpler to implement than actual PID profile following, I did it in my TC4 fork. Such approach works well for same beans in same day, or in same environment conditions as the master roast was been done.
 
renatoa
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Posted on 08/29/2021 4:28 AM
Any progress ?
If you want, we can talk more on this subject, even without that test.
 
oldgrumpus
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Posted on 08/29/2021 10:38 AM
Not yet, but pondering your question…
What sort of data file are you taking about? Maybe an Artisan file of the test?
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
Build thread https://homeroast...post_38189
 
renatoa
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 08/29/2021 12:29 PM
Yes, you guessed right.
Artisan log or export into a csv file, any of them works.

What is your current flow for an average roast? I mean gas valve actions.
 
oldgrumpus
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 08/29/2021 6:04 PM
I currently use a PID to control the pre-heat. It is on-off of a solenoid valve. During the roast, it is manual control with a needle valve without the PID.
For preheat, the PID can handle any gas setting on the needle valve to maintain temperature as long as it is above the minimum required.
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
Build thread https://homeroast...post_38189
 
renatoa
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 08/30/2021 1:43 AM
Please have a look at the "well tempered roaster" threads, you can found the most current in the hottest threads section, on left side.
I would give a try to that recipe using the PID controlled valve.
 
oldgrumpus
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Posted on 08/30/2021 5:47 AM
Will do! Thank you,
Clever Coffee Dripper
Grinder: Macap M4
Roaster: Completed drum roaster project photos shown here:
Photos https://goo.gl/ph...Da6K4wfqw5
Videos https://www.youtu...Bd1NrdpSUH
Build thread https://homeroast...post_38189
 
Will2
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 09/25/2024 9:04 AM
I’ve used Artisan’s PID control with a drum roaster, and while it’s true that fluid bed roasters respond faster, I’ve still found it helpful. It gives you more control and helps repeat profiles more consistently. It’s not a fool’s errand, but you’ll probably need to tweak it a bit to get the response times just right. I haven’t tried it with a Fuji PID, but if you’re basing your roaster on the Coffee-Tech Solar, you’re probably on the right path.
Viliam
 
renatoa
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 09/25/2024 10:03 AM
If possible, please, can you post a picture of such control session.
 
oldgrumpus
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 09/25/2024 10:54 PM

Quote

Will2 wrote:
It’s not a fool’s errand, but you’ll probably need to tweak it a bit to get the response times just right.


I agree with Renatoa. PLEASE post whatever you can, a video or photo of your setup with some explanation of how you initially set up your system.
 
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