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renatoa
02/08/2023 1:20 AM
coffee drink @ RC-Roaster

allenb
02/07/2023 7:46 PM
qthocher Welcome

renatoa
02/07/2023 10:28 AM
Snidely Whiplash, welcome !

renatoa
02/06/2023 10:36 AM
welcome to forum , ETomczak and annguyen20

renatoa
02/04/2023 1:40 PM
Welcome, ediblemanager

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Input please on a couple of early roasts...
Microfiche
Absolute newbie, just roasted 110 g of Honduran last night: Organic Washed Bon Cafe in a stock SR800 about 12 hours ago, still waiting to brew a sample, but the beans smell great.
Somewhat following a YouTube video from The Captain's Coffee https://www.youtu...6W07lbLWgw
The "bean temperature" is from a ThermoPro thermometer probe sitting about in the middle of the beans in the chamber, the fan temperature is as reported by the SR800.
Just curious as to whether more experienced eyes see something obvious where I could improve, I am trying to get a "flow" happening so I can more easily manage all the moving pieces as I roast. I am not using any software, just threw a graph together in Excel.

Also - quick question on a different natural process Colombian bean I am trying to roast. I roasted 1st time with no bean probe, and the SR800 showing about 445° F at the 7.5 minute mark when I started cooling down. I was trying to somewhat follow this: https://www.youtu...Q9SmQRTKlQ
I never did hear first crack - though neven had an issue with the other beans I have roasted. The beans smell WAY too fruity for me.

I tried again, this time roasting for 11 minutes and (I think) just hitting 2nd crack at around 459° F - though again I never did hear first crack. This roast smells a little less fruity, but likley still more than I would like. Are some beans (natural process in particular) just going to be like that?
Microfiche attached the following image:
coffee_roast_4_honduras_washed.png

Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
Microfiche
I had been recording the Colombian roast on my GoPro, so I pulled the audio out and looked at it in Audacity to see if I could SEE first crack - especially when the beans were between 390 - 415° F and I could see nothing at all. My hearing isn't great, but on all my other roasts I have always heard first crack,
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
renatoa

Quote

thermometer probe sitting about in the middle of the beans in the chamber


... this belief developed especially for popper based machines, where the hot air is a vortex along the walls, and the center is indeed a relatively calm area, where a decent beans temperature can be measured.

In the SR machines the hot air is everywhere inside glass, as a relatively uniform vertical column, so a probe placed in any place records a mix of air with beans that can't be separated in a meaningful way into ET / BT components.
Even the profile plot in the image above shows an allure different than in other machines... too much increase at start, then a relative stagnation. This is characteristic rather of air (ET) graph, than to BT.
Not a bad thing if you know how to handle this info.
So you should change your mind about where are placed the events on your measurements, and adjust accordingly. Because of the significant hot air quota in the measured mix, all temperatures you measure are higher than you see in the graphs on the internet.
For example the FC occurrence... there are great chance it happens later than you believe, in the 220C-428F ballpark.
At least so happened to me for a SR540 Chinese clone.

So next roast let's try a longer/higher temperature roast, either until you hear FC, or the beans become significantly dark than should be, and cry for cooling.
 
HarryDog
Hello Microfiche, I like you are using a 4oz charge as I think you could use more air at the start of the roast, less heat maybe, not such a steep climb at the start?

More heat less air gradually to help you get to FC, first crack is louder then second crack so it might be occurring later for sure.

Maybe a roast assistant to help you identify when FC is happening so you don't miss it. Just to identify when it happens in your roaster.

For me Naturals have been more enjoyable then washed and I'm not a fruit forward person, they have just been more interesting cups so far.

What beans I like darker for more of a full bodied roast has been:
Indian Monsooned Malabar
Costa Rican Tarrazu
Sumatra Mandheling
Brazilian Bourbon Santos
Everyone's taste is different.

Disclaimer: I don't have a FR unit and I'm not an expert at anything.
 
Microfiche
Whoops, missed these replies, assumed that subscription was automatic. Fixed it.

The weird thing about the 1st crack on these beans is that with my other roasts, I ALWAYS hear it with no issues, and it always (well 5 times so far) happens when the "bean probe" is around the 400° F ± 7-8° mark, which seems to track with what I have read? Maybe these are bad beans or something... Even the colour seems like it should be a medium-dark?

Appreciate the inputs on the roast, I will try to raise the temp at little slower at the start.

i.imgur.com/ASsHjve.jpg
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
HarryDog
It looks like you have some very dark beans in the dark beans, if you were roasting hot and fast maybe FC rolled right into SC. I did this once with my first roaster. I don't have any issue hearing start of FC but hearing the FCe and not going into SC has been hard for me to pin point. I have timed FC to SC so I can cut my development time by 15 seconds to see if I like this more then the first roast. Not sure this will be easy for you using the pot on the FR?
 
renatoa
Or very dry beans, FC is a steam release process, if the beans are old and less moisture, there is no steam enough to produce the crack.
You can weigh them and compute the loss.
14% means medium roast, less than 12% is light roast, more than 16% is dark roast.
The above is valid for normal moisture in greens, i.e. 10-12% water.
14% loss means that 100 grams of greens result in 86 grams roast coffee.
If it looks and taste as medium roast, but weight loss is 12% for example, then your coffee is dried, probably in the 8% ballpark.
 
Microfiche

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Or very dry beans, FC is a steam release process, if the beans are old and less moisture, there is no steam enough to produce the crack.
You can weigh them and compute the loss.
14% means medium roast, less than 12% is light roast, more than 16% is dark roast.
The above is valid for normal moisture in greens, i.e. 10-12% water.
14% loss means that 100 grams of greens result in 86 grams roast coffee.
If it looks and taste as medium roast, but weight loss is 12% for example, then your coffee is dried, probably in the 8% ballpark.


So that Colombian roast was 200g in and 167g out (beans only), so 16½% loss and a dark roast?
I wondered about that - from what I read the natural processed coffees produce more chaff than washed, does the chaff weight get ignored?
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
Microfiche

Quote

HarryDog wrote:

It looks like you have some very dark beans in the dark beans, if you were roasting hot and fast maybe FC rolled right into SC. I did this once with my first roaster. I don't have any issue hearing start of FC but hearing the FCe and not going into SC has been hard for me to pin point. I have timed FC to SC so I can cut my development time by 15 seconds to see if I like this more then the first roast. Not sure this will be easy for you using the pot on the FR?


I will keep that in mind for other roasts, but after opening up and smelling this roast this morning, it may be a moot point. This natural Colombian, even roasted this long, istill smells far too fruity for me. I may just trash these beans, I don't even want to brew them thumbdown
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
HarryDog
Up to you but if you don't cup it you won't know for sure? I taste everything and blend off beans I don't really enjoy by themselves but will work fine in a blend I can drink.
 
Microfiche

Quote

HarryDog wrote:

Up to you but if you don't cup it you won't know for sure? I taste everything and blend off beans I don't really enjoy by themselves but will work fine in a blend I can drink.


Thanks! This was my second roast with these beans - I was trying to roast the fruitiness out of them 😉
I mixed the first (lighter) roast with some other beans I do like, and even in a small proportion I found the taste they added to be awful (to me) As these beans smell mostly the same as the first roast, I don't want to wreck any more coffee! 😂
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
renatoa

Quote

Microfiche wrote:

I wondered about that - from what I read the natural processed coffees produce more chaff than washed, does the chaff weight get ignored?


Yes, can be ignored, it's a fraction of 1%

When I see oil on beans is hard for me to associate this with any kind of fruit... :confused:
 
HarryDog
What do you want in a coffee? If a more traditional dark roasty taste then the first 3 beans in that list are great choices, the fourth might be a little on the edge of that. With my air roaster I get lots of Red winey after taste and if the right level I like it but if over powering it's hard to take. I have roasted the odd Natural darker and been successful My favorite of thees is the Ethiopian Abyssinia Mocha, full rich body with a baker spice finish, ginger, nutmeg and a splash of cinnamon. I need 3 more rest days on my latest batch to see if I have duplicated this roast result. this is one I want to share if I can duplicate it, for Christmas.
 
Microfiche

Quote

HarryDog wrote:

What do you want in a coffee? If a more traditional dark roasty taste then the first 3 beans in that list are great choices, the fourth might be a little on the edge of that. With my air roaster I get lots of Red winey after taste and if the right level I like it but if over powering it's hard to take. I have roasted the odd Natural darker and been successful My favorite of thees is the Ethiopian Abyssinia Mocha, full rich body with a baker spice finish, ginger, nutmeg and a splash of cinnamon. I need 3 more rest days on my latest batch to see if I have duplicated this roast result. this is one I want to share if I can duplicate it, for Christmas.


My wife and I got into specialty coffees when we lived in central Canada, when we found a new roaster we really liked. We moved out to the west a few years back and found that we had a hard time finding locally roasted coffees here that we liked - a lot of them we did not like AT ALL. Our roaster in Manitoba had quite a variety of beans and we grew to like all of them really, but our favourites were an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, Sumatra Mandheling, a Monsooned Malabar, and another custom bleand of African beans. He called them light to medium roasts, but from what I have learned since starting to roast, I now know they were all medium-dark to dark. We were suprised that almost none of the beans we got here locally had any surface oil - virtually all his roasts had varying sheens to small droplets. We have not found a local light roast that we like here either.

We try coffee wherever we travel and just recently returned from Kailua-Kona, Hawai'i, where we toured a coffee plantation and fell in love with Kona coffee (expensive habit😉). We have also spent lots of money on coffees we did not enjoy - all I get from Blue Mountain is a "muddy" taste for $60 USD/pound 😂

Hence the desire to roast myself. At this point I think I will be focusing on city to full city+ roasts, and then trying to figure out which beans we like. So far I have roasted 4 coffees:
  1. Columbia Paula Concha 20 Brix 👎
  2. Honduras - Bon Cafe - Organic 👍
  3. Sumatra Dolok Sanggul Desha Dogul – Washed 👍
  4. Kenya - Wahundura Muranga - AB SL 5188 👍

and I have a pound of Ethiopia Sidama Bensa Segera Kenyan Style Natural left to try that I will roast 200 g of this afternoon.
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
HarryDog
Interesting list, surprised to see the Yirgacheffe, but I did think it had potential but I never hit the right roast for me. Next two I understand. We are the opposite on the next two, but I understand the Kona fitting into your flavor profile. For me the Blue Mountain was the single best cup I have ever had at a cafe. I have a pound of this to roast and can't wait.

I have other beans from the last countries/areas you mention and look forward to tasting them. Kenyan AA on Saturday.
 
Microfiche

Quote

HarryDog wrote:
... Kenyan AA on Saturday.


So the one coffee we quite like that is roasted locally is an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe they call a medium/dark but I would call a City+. Our old roaster called his a light roast, but I would say is closer to Full City+ 😂 When I get some of those beans, I am going to shoot for Full City+.

We also quite liked Kenyan AA when our old roaster used to do that. I really tried to like Blue Mountain, tried a few different roasts and roasters, but no go - especially at the price. I don't think Kona is going to happen ofter either for that matter.
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
Microfiche

Quote

renatoa wrote:
When I see oil on beans is hard for me to associate this with any kind of fruit... :confused:


This Columbian natural processed coffee (Columbia Paula Concha 20 Brix) has the strongest fruity smell I have ever smelled - though I couldn't tell you what kind of fruit it smells like, it just smells wrong 😂 It did come down a bit when I roasted longer, but I ended up throwing the green and roasted beans out. Not our preference.
The farm says "It is a coffee with the base of the traditional Colombian profile plus fruity notes, typical of the natural process. It is a good base for an espresso. Chocolatey with plum, red wine and oak notes." Perhaps the fruity notes would mute way past 2nd crack, but we aren't looking for that dark of a roast. https://thosecoff...processes/
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
allenb

Quote

This Columbian natural processed coffee (Columbia Paula Concha 20 Brix) has the strongest fruity smell I have ever smelled - though I couldn't tell you what kind of fruit it smells like, it just smells wrong 😂


It's interesting to hear your distaste of fruit forward coffees. Unfortunately, there is and has been a big fad going on with natural processed, fruit forward coffees with that fermented fruit funk. I used to enjoy a slight blueberry tinge now and then with some of the Ethiopians but not anymore. If I want my coffee to taste like several month old stale fruit juice, I will stale some and add it to my cup but other than that, no thankyou.

They used to be a minority offering at most green coffee suppliers but now seem to dominate the lists with many of the suppliers. I, like many of us, like a good Kenya with wine-like acidity and Ethiopians and Yirgs with all sorts of varied spice notes but have more than grown tired of the fruit bombs.

Hopefully the popularity will dissipate as most fads do in the near future to allow more "normal" coffee to hit the offering lists.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Microfiche

Quote

allenb wrote:
there is and has been a big fad going on with natural processed, fruit forward coffees with that fermented fruit funk.


Phew, it is not just my cranky old man "When I was younger they had REAL coffee" vibe 😂
Retired, newbie roaster, long time coffee lover, with Phidget connected thermocouples in SR800
 
DrHenley
Some fruit notes I like, some I don't. Dried plum, currant, blueberry and blackberry I'll take anytime. Chocolate and tobacco aren't fruit notes, but I've had some terrific coffees with those notes. I especially look for dark chocolate in espressos (which I don't drink every day). Lemon, lime, apricot, etc. I might like to drink once in a while but not all the time.
First batch of Ethiopia Kembata had a very strong blueberry note. Blueberry aroma was there in the green coffee too, so strong that it overpowered the normal green coffee aroma. It was quite a wonderfully shocking experience.
Unfortunately, the next batch I bought, the blueberry flavor had turned into an awful medicinal flavor.
An odd but surprisingly pleasant fruit note was a Peruvian that had a lime aftertaste. Not something I would want in my morning cup of Joe, but interesting to drink once in a while.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AeroPress, Capresso On The Go single cup drip, Moka Pot
DIY Gas Fired perforated drum using TermoPro meat probe as bean probe (very accurate), Aillio Bullet R1 V2
A morning without coffee is like a marriage without a honeymoon.
 
HarryDog
Hey Microfiche, when you come across too fruity beans how about a test, re-wash them. I have seen a few people do this and wonder if it could save some of those beans.
 
renatoa
This is advisable to be done especially for old/dry beans, if the moisture meter shows under 8-9% humidity.

Much more elaborated on this subject here: https://christoph...-protocol/

Don't miss his last paranormal experiment on this: rehydration with Cola and other soda's drinks ! Shock
 
HarryDog
Totally going to try Dr.Pepper!

Any cheap moisture meters worth buying?
 
allenb

Quote

HarryDog wrote:

Hey Microfiche, when you come across too fruity beans how about a test, re-wash them. I have seen a few people do this and wonder if it could save some of those beans.


Thanks for the link to this. I've got a few lbs of two different Ethiopian naturals that came with high marks but have way too much of the fermented fruit funk but otherwise has lots of positive characteristics including lots of chocolate and spice notes. Maybe this will tone it down just enough to give them some balance.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
HarryDog
I hope this works Allenb, I'm going to mess with a bean I don't enjoy so maybe a wash, soda pop infusion, syrup and a dash of vanilla bean powder soak. Just not sure of how I will proceed? Wash (To remove parchment) then dry and then soak or just a wash and soak? then dry before roasting. We should post procedure and the results in Brewing/cupping, maybe it will help others.
 
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