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Freezing green beans
oldgrumpus
I’m curious if it works or does freezing destroy or degrade the beans in some way that affects quality in the cup?
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allenb
Good question and I've never read anything other than speculation unfortunately. I've roasted a Kenya in the past that had been frozen in a air tight glass container for a few months and it came out fine but I had no way to compare it by roasting it fresh so who knows if it could have been even better if not frozen.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
Freezing roasted coffee is a different thing, there are available even "studies", not sure how scientific, but majority of opinions are favorable.

But the original question was about greens... which means moisture... which means ice, when frozen, that destroy the bean internal at cellular level, so ... never heard about this...
However, what is the cost to try... a batch of roast Grin
 
oldgrumpus
I started this thread because 1.) I never really thought about the possibility of freezing green beans, and 2). I've assumed until now, that since green beans seem to keep fairly well over time, why worry about how old they are?

But a couple of questions nagged at me. Some green coffee sellers go to great lengths to document the arrival dates and new offerings and discount the older beans.

Other green coffee sellers give very little information about how long beans have been on their shelves. Their beans are often less expensive.

I realize their may be many reasons for this but I only recently heard a green bean wholesaler state that fresh greens really do produce better results with more character. He even went so far as to say that they verify this as the beans age and begin to discount the beans when they notice the beginnings of taste degradation.

So, if one can purchase a quantity of fresh beans and freeze them, wouldn't that be a good thing?

I know that freezing nuts doesn't seem to ruin them, and many other things survive freezing quite well. Green coffee doesn't have a very high moisture content so it seems logical to me it might be quite alright to freeze. I think I'll try it and see if I can discern any adverse consequences...
 
renatoa
We should worry how old because (lack) of moisture especially... old greens always requires hydration to have a good roast evolution. This way the bean regain its internal "convection agent" responsible with storing energy and release, at first crack.

There is an anonymous horse mouth rule about coffee different timings, called rule of fifteens, it start with: Green coffee lasts about 15 months before it goes stale, ... you can google for the rest of rules smile
So, according this rule, at this moment beans from a 2021 crop becomes undesirable to buy, they are already past 16 months old.

Roasting nuts ... is there any forum about this subject ? Grin
 
oldgrumpus

Quote

renatoa wrote:

We should worry how old because (lack) of moisture especially... old greens always requires hydration to have a good roast evolution. This way the bean regain its internal "convection agent" responsible with storing energy and release, at first crack.
Grin


I've never heard of this rule or rules. I will look. But your comment begs another question: Can the level of hydration be increased? It seems like this might be possible. What is the ideal percentage of hydration if the ideal has already passed by the time we purchase them?
 
renatoa
One of the many quotations of the "rules of 15" here:www.blackoutcoffe...nd-storage
You can read there about freezing too.

In the professional world, the first thing they do after unsealing the GrainPro bags is to measure moisture, using a dedicated tool, like... cmsale.com/produc...s/moisture

Depending what they find, the roast process is adjusted, same crop coming from same warehouse, but some months later, is roasted different if moisture is 10% instead 11%, an example.

If less than 8-9% then re-hydration is a must, roasting is a pain with such dried beans.
For home roasting this re-hydration can be done spraying the right amount of water ... i.e. 10g for 1kg if 1% increase is desired... this operation should ideally be done in a mixing device, like a washing machine tumbler Grin, to distribute moisture uniform, then let the whole sit in a tight container for some hours, even half day, again for uniformity.

A semi-pro approach, for 40 pounds batch, is described below, more detailed than my short story above.
https://christoph...-protocol/
 
Piotrkurak
This has gotten me thinking [often dangerous process]: what happens if you take a dried out somewhat mediocre roaster bean sample pack and rehydrate it with a 10% sucrose solution?

We're supposedly caramelizing the contained sugars to obtain flavorings. More sugar, more caramelized flavor? Could burn easier/faster, but since I stop right after first crack, what could go wrong besides a bean fire?
 
renatoa
Why would you limit your imagination to sucrose only... Grin
Why not a Cola, pineapple juice... peppermint, er... sauerkraut... Shock

https://christoph...hydration/
 
allenb
This brand comes to mind in the very early days of packaged roasted coffee

https://arbucklec...-1-issue-1
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Piotrkurak
Limited imagination? You have got to be kidding, no?.Roflmao

Ok since I don't have any predictions of drek, or possible Armageddon, I added 16 grams 10% sucrose to 383 grams roaster sample columbian. In the oven @145 f to dry to the touch will roast tomorrow.

Renetoa: noticed in your quote that adding flavors like non sauerkraut had a untraceeable effect to the roasted flavor such that the pineapple et all, wasn't prescient after roasting. I suspect sauerkraut probably would; as well as would smoked kielbasa. I also use sucrose in my homebrew fermentation, and diabetes tablets, hence the choice based on availability.. BTW table sugar is mostly sucrose

allenb: recalls? Like from past experience?
Edited by Piotrkurak on 05/25/2023 8:40 PM
 
allenb

Quote

allenb: recalls? Like from past experience?


You know, I unfortunately missed the opportunity to cup their egg and sugar coated beans in a bag but believe it or not, I would love to be able to give it a try just to know why it was in such demand for so long.

Oh well, I guess I'll never know what I missed out on! limb
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Piotrkurak
So far today on the experiment: 10% sugar is way too much. At 140F, The beans are turning brownish and taking forever to dry with a sticky result. 3 hours in the oven and still not dry. The beans did grow some, ain't going to roast this in the Behmore, have to use the sifter in 2 batches.

More in a later edit

Edit one 07:00: beans are dry, renatoa's treastise indicates they will smoke and tend to burn.

Edit two: dry weight is now 402.6 grams

@allenb: https://arbucklec...7333744825. Indicates arbuckles original is still available but expensive and may not have a coating
Edited by renatoa on 05/26/2023 10:46 AM
 
Piotrkurak
[img]20230526.jpg[/img]

Roasted, look but don't taste burnt on dark ones, never got above 406f on IR scanner which is first crack, generally, on sifter roasting. Roast is all over the place on color, but even the light ones Indicate first crack.

Probably not worth repeating, much the same as others have experienced

Edit: turns out to have improved the flavors and body during the roast. Grinding reveals it isn't as dark a roast as the same beans run through the Behmore last friday.

To be continued
Edited by Piotrkurak on 05/27/2023 9:13 AM
 
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