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Problem with electric control Quest M6 Coffee Roaster
zamunda
Top  #1 Print Post
Posted on 06/14/2023 2:38 AM
Hello,

I have roasted several batches with the Quest M6 Coffee Roaster which is a quite new model from a friend of mine.
Yesterday when starting up the roaster I noticed that the ampere controller wasn't working properly anymore, that is, normally, after swithching on, we set it at 5.3-5,4 but now we can not control it anymore, it sticks always at 6. I do not know where that comes from, any ideas?

Please see the video to check the issue.

Regards

Edited by zamunda on 06/14/2023 5:03 AM
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renatoa
Top  #2 Print Post
Posted on 06/14/2023 6:27 AM
6 Amps equates roughly to 1300W, which I guess it's the roaster power.
So the most probably control element is broken, i.e. the triac of the power variator.
The unit needs a visit of an electronist, should not be a costly repair, the replacement part itself it's under $5.
Something like this, used in RobotDyn dimmers:
https://ro.farnel...dp/1175636

Or adapt an external regulator, as those 4000W SCR from Amazon, quoted here in various build threads.
 
zamunda
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 06/14/2023 11:19 AM
Hello Renatoa,

Thanks for pointing this out!

I have an external regulator 4000W I use for my Turbo roaster...

But if I connect the Quest to this one to control the heat, won't it also control/bother the airflow-controller?
Otherwise this would be a nice workaround while I look for a technician who can fix the power variator.

Thanks and regards!

Quote

renatoa wrote:

6 Amps equates roughly to 1300W, which I guess it's the roaster power.
So the most probably control element is broken, i.e. the triac of the power variator.
The unit needs a visit of an electronist, should not be a costly repair, the replacement part itself it's under $5.
Something like this, used in RobotDyn dimmers:
https://ro.farnel...dp/1175636

Or adapt an external regulator, as those 4000W SCR from Amazon, quoted here in various build threads.
zamunda attached the following image:
b_1.jpeg
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renatoa
Top  #4 Print Post
Posted on 06/14/2023 12:42 PM
Depends which voltage/principle is the airflow controlled.
If it is low voltage DC fan, controlled by PWM/IO3, then will be unaffected.
The DC power source should deliver fixed 12V voltage in a broad range of mains.
Just test and see.
 
zamunda
Top  #5 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 2:30 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Depends which voltage/principle is the airflow controlled.
If it is low voltage DC fan, controlled by PWM/IO3, then will be unaffected.
The DC power source should deliver fixed 12V voltage in a broad range of mains.
Just test and see.


Hello Renatoa,
Thanks for your reply.
OK, I'll will test! But I am now thinking that it might affect RPM of the drum as well which is not desirable?
Anyway I will test and let you know.
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renatoa
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 2:49 AM
Again, as for the fan, depends which motor style you have for drum.

To be sure nothing is affected,the simplest way would be to feed the heater only from the external variator.
Is it so scary to open the roaster black box and identify the circuits following the wires ?
 
zamunda
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 3:34 AM
Hello Renatoa,

OK, I am not scared to open it but to understand what I see is the difficult part Grin.

Here are some pictures:
zamunda attached the following images:
whatsapp_image_2023-06-15_at_103030.jpeg whatsapp_image_2023-06-15_at_103031_1.jpeg whatsapp_image_2023-06-15_at_103031.jpeg
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zamunda
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 8:53 AM
Hello Renatoa,

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Let the motors alone, let's focus on heater connections...please follow them.
One of the heater wires should go to mains, the other to a relay/control box.


Thanks, I think I found that out: pics are showing one wire going to mains other pic showing cable to knob of controlbox.
So I guess if I disconnect both cables by removing the screws and connect them directly through the external controller, it should work ok?

Thanks again!
zamunda attached the following images:
heater2relay.jpeg heater2main.jpeg
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renatoa
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 9:17 AM
And I found the heater control switcher... why not just change that part ?
Can you dismount from the screw and read the component code ?
If possible without un-soldering terminals...

If identified, maybe you can even order an equivalent, from mouser of other components store
...
renatoa attached the following image:
heater2relay_1.jpeg
 
zamunda
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 9:37 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

And I found the heater control switcher... why not just change that part ?
Can you dismount from the screw and read the component code ?
If possible without un-soldering terminals...

If identified, maybe you can even order an equivalent, from mouser of other components store
...


OK, thanks, I'll try
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zamunda
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 10:11 AM
Hello Renatoa,

This is a pic, I dismounted it and I hope you can identify the part...

What I can read from it is "BTA16 6008 CHN 408"...or "BTA16 600B CHN 408"

...is this all the info needed?

Could it be this one?
https://www.conra...151306.htm

Thanks for your support!



Quote

renatoa wrote:

And I found the heater control switcher... why not just change that part ?
Can you dismount from the screw and read the component code ?
If possible without un-soldering terminals...

If identified, maybe you can even order an equivalent, from mouser of other components store
...
zamunda attached the following image:
triac.jpeg
Edited by renatoa on 06/15/2023 11:59 AM
 
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renatoa
Top  #12 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 11:59 AM
Yep, that is, same as I pointed to in post #2.
 
zamunda
Top  #13 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 12:15 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Yep, that is, same as I pointed to in post #2.


Great, I ordered it. Let you know how it goes!

Regards,
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Beanz
Top  #14 Print Post
Posted on 06/15/2023 11:33 PM
The control circuit can be found in the Quest manual on Sweet Marias site, page 14

https://library.s...-links.pdf
Edited by Beanz on 06/16/2023 12:19 AM
 
zamunda
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 06/16/2023 1:12 AM

Quote

Beanz wrote:

The control circuit can be found in the Quest manual on Sweet Marias site, page 14

https://library.s...-links.pdf


Thanks!
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renatoa
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 06/16/2023 2:02 AM
Pretty basic dimmer schematic on heater and airflow. The same as the dimmers used for light (not LED) dimming.
They didn't even used a snubber circuit on blower motor, which is not kosher, unless the T1 triac is snubberless type.

And yes, a voltage control placed outside roasterbox would change airflow when changing heater... but not drum, nor cooler... only if you don't go under 70% with heater (70% on external control I mean)
 
zamunda
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 06/16/2023 7:59 AM

Quote

zamunda wrote:

Quote

Beanz wrote:

The control circuit can be found in the Quest manual on Sweet Marias site, page 14

https://library.s...-links.pdf


Thanks!


My friend who owns the Quest would like to have control over drumspeed (RPM) since he considers the stock value as quite low.
Would this be difficult/easy to accomplish (since I have it opened right now Grin)?

Regards,
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renatoa
Top  #18 Print Post
Posted on 06/16/2023 12:01 PM
Assuming the motor is induction type, as the schematic suggest, yes, is difficult to do this electrical, needs frequency change, like 60-70 Hz instead 50 Hz.
Such converters are usually built for big power motors, and aren't cheap.
A mechanical alternative is to change the gear ratio, if done using a belt-pulley system. Pretty simple to do if using a standard timing belt system, like AT or GT, just replace the wheels with other tooth count.
Knowing the motor type and mount would help a lot for a more personalized response.
 
zamunda
Top  #19 Print Post
Posted on 06/16/2023 12:47 PM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Assuming the motor is induction type, as the schematic suggest, yes, is difficult to do this electrical, needs frequency change, like 60-70 Hz instead 50 Hz.
Such converters are usually built for big power motors, and aren't cheap.
A mechanical alternative is to change the gear ratio, if done using a belt-pulley system. Pretty simple to do if using a standard timing belt system, like AT or GT, just replace the wheels with other tooth count.
Knowing the motor type and mount would help a lot for a more personalized response.


OK, thanks for your ideas!
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zamunda
Top  #20 Print Post
Posted on 06/17/2023 8:57 AM
Hello,

Today the triac arrived so I tried to replace the old one.

However, when disassembling it the little blue one broke...Shock

So what to do now?

Quote

zamunda wrote:

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Yep, that is, same as I pointed to in post #2.


Great, I ordered it. Let you know how it goes!

Regards,
zamunda attached the following image:
triac_1.jpeg
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zamunda
Top  #21 Print Post
Posted on 06/17/2023 9:16 AM
Hello,

Things got worse I think...

Please look at the picture...

The red arrows indicate how the triac should be re-soldered according to what I wrote down.

However, as said the blue one got broken so I guess have to replace it and the orange one has 1 pin missing from what I see at a closer look. So this one should be replaced as well I guess but where should that missing pin soldered to?

Thanks for your help!

Quote

zamunda wrote:

Hello,

Today the triac arrived so I tried to replace the old one.

However, when disassembling it the little blue one broke...Shock

So what to do now?

Quote

zamunda wrote:

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Yep, that is, same as I pointed to in post #2.


Great, I ordered it. Let you know how it goes!

Regards,
zamunda attached the following image:
newtriac.jpeg
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renatoa
Top  #22 Print Post
Posted on 06/17/2023 9:17 AM
It's the "diac 2" in the schematic, this component or very close:
https://www.conra...2-v-186406

What's next ? Shock
 
zamunda
Top  #23 Print Post
Posted on 06/17/2023 9:22 AM

Quote

renatoa wrote:

It's the "diac 2" in the schematic, this component or very close:
https://www.conra...2-v-186406

What's next ? Shock


Thanks Renatoa!

And how about the one in the orange oval?
zamunda attached the following image:
newtrialcc.jpg
Edited by zamunda on 06/17/2023 9:53 AM
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renatoa
Top  #24 Print Post
Posted on 06/17/2023 11:10 AM
Capacitor, check schematic in the pdf linked by @Beanz
Not sure which one of them, they are two, 22nF if connected to diac, 120 nF if connected to pot.
 
Yasu
Top  #25 Print Post
Posted on 06/19/2023 2:02 AM
Since it appears to be 473K 400V with a capacitor.
47 x 10 cubic PF = 47000 PF = 0.047 μF capacitance and 400 V withstand voltage.

https://www.amazo...amp;sr=8-1

https://www.allum...calculator
Edited by Yasu on 06/19/2023 3:31 AM
 
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