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Green coffee sellers
allenb
I just ordered a few different coffees from primegreencoffee.org to see how well they stack up compared to our usual sources. I've heard very good things about their being very consistent with quality level and being trustworthy with their cupping descriptions. This is something that most green coffee sellers typically fail at. I've had many coffees this year that in my best estimate would barely rate an 80 but showed stellar marks from the sellers.

I think there has been a huge increase over the last 5 years or so in the degree and amount of salesmanship related dishonesty in order for them to keep sales up, especially when there may be any chance that this or that large quantity of green coffee may end up hitting the past crop stage and having to take a loss in profit.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
I would have to agree about the problem of marketing, that their language tends to create an expectation that isn’t realized. I looked at the website that you mentioned and I’m not sure that you would have the answers, but I’m wondering why it is a “.org” and not a “.com” or a “.biz”? I don’t see any information about who they are as a company. It’s just stuff I’d like to know.
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allenb
I agree that his site is a little slim in the "who we are" department. This thread at HB gives some good background and other tidbits.

According to the thread, Jim used to be a buyer at green coffee buying club prior to starting his green coffee operation.
https://www.home-...70819.html
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb

Quote

oldgrumpus wrote:

I would have to agree about the problem of marketing, that their language tends to create an expectation that isn’t realized. .


Prior to a few years ago, the only issue I had with them was the over the top super tasters fairy tales. For example, here's one from Sweet Marias shown on their site today: "A unique Uraga coffee with incredible fruits in the cup. Bright citrus flavors inform acidity, with a refreshing flavor of green Galia melon, tropical rambutan fruit, tangy notes of pomelo, and hibiscus tea, and floral overlay. City to City+.
Most of us have learned to skip passed the super tasters deception game but we at least used to be able to somewhat depend on their quality rating. With some sellers, it seems to me that even this is not reliable anymore, leaving us with no way to make an informed decision. Unfortunately, sellers who will not allow returns for a product not meeting advertised claims, cause us to lose $ and makes green coffee shopping a painful chore.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
oldgrumpus
I couldn’t agree more!
 
Piotrkurak
Everything is rated for light roasts in the descriptions of the beans I buy. Problem is, that's what I do and I don't get those tastes. Thought it was me and my newbie roast methods or equipment. Tried a BUNCH of bean purveyors, including botique expen$$ive ones

Seems to be prevalent along the whole system, or nobody ACTUALLY stops at FC.

I hit cool at the start of the EGT dip (thanks @allenb), TAKES 2 minutes before I can open the roaster and do massive industrial vacuum cooling for the remaining 2 minutes to room temp
 
HarryDog
This is such a huge topic, I do think they go overboard on descriptors for sure.

I think we get taken advantage of on so many levels as home roasters, Q grading and cupping notes is just two of them.

I can see it now, Tasted and Graded by Average Joe, Yep it Taste Hot & Wet! Now the Greenest for the low price of $10 bucks a pound!

I don't know what is going on right now but last I looked well known Roasters in my Country were selling roasted coffee at less then I can buy the Green at? Not sure if this is a trend or Roasters just trying to gain back some market share?
 
Mike_Mathis
This is from an article posted on SM with a write date of Dec, 29 2023 concerning Imports from Ethiopia

Early price ideas are trending lower than last year, due in part to an excess of coffee not having been sold from the 22/23 harvest coupled with a slightly larger 23/24 harvest. This is a double-edged sword, as on the one hand, the high prices of last season led to low demand, which is part of the reason there is so much carry over volume from 22/23. But lower prices come at a time of double digit inflation and loan scarcity, meaning cash for buying coffee is harder to come by for exporters, and ultimately less money for farmers.

My question is: What are they going to do with all this excess coffee from the 22-23 harvest that they have not sold? Coupled with a ample crop for 23-24.
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renatoa
Maybe SM missed or ignored the real reason of the Eth prices turmoil... the EU idiocratic regulations against deforestation... thus no more Eth coffee for EU, thus big stocks of coffee that overnight is no more good for EU cups due to climatic bureaucracy.

https://www.reute...023-12-19/
https://www.linke...r-horsten/
https://birrmetri...egulation/
 
oldgrumpus
Well now, isn’t that a fine mess?
 
allenb
renatoa posted:

Quote

Maybe SM missed or ignored the real reason of the Eth prices turmoil... the EU idiocratic regulations against deforestation... thus no more Eth coffee for EU, thus big stocks of coffee that overnight is no more good for EU cups due to climatic bureaucracy.

It's interesting that EU is the biggest importer of Ethiopian coffee yet, instead of helping farmers find a way to comply with the new EUDR (european union deforestation regulations) paperwork tracing requirements, European coffee companies decide to stop buying Ethiopian green coffee which will result in massive increases in poverty/death to Ethiopian farmers. Another casualty of United Nations Agenda 21 so-called Sustainable Development. For more on this cult of sustainability, see the downloads section paper titled Nefarious History of the Sustainability Movement https://homeroast...load_id=38

Imports of Ethiopian coffee by country

Germany 20%
Saudi Arabia 13.7%
Japan 10%
USA 9.3%

https://apps.fas....3-0014.pdf
Edited by allenb on 01/08/2024 5:39 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Maybe SM missed or ignored the real reason of the Eth prices turmoil... the EU idiocratic regulations against deforestation... thus no more Eth coffee for EU, thus big stocks of coffee that overnight is no more good for EU cups due to climatic bureaucracy.

https://www.reute...023-12-19/
https://www.linke...r-horsten/
https://birrmetri...egulation/


Thanks renatoa for posting this important news. I would like to add a few more comments about this after reading some of the articles you linked to.

For anyone like me, who may not have been up to speed on this looming tragedy, the EUDR which is fairly recent bureaucratic control-tracking-tracing regulations and stands for European Union Deforestation Regulations, is the latest installment of the unelected United Nations Sustainability movement within Agenda 21.
In a nutshell, big brother's massive satellite array will be beaming up images using AI, of all areas of the planet and in this case, all forests to monitor potential deforestation. https://www.live-...agQAvD_BwE

You can probably imagine how AI will use satellite monitoring in the not too distant future for detecting more than just how well forests are holding up.
Anyway, the biggest buyers of Ethiopian coffee in Europe are planning on stopping their purchasing of Ethiopian coffee due to the upcoming requirement for them to be able to show a complete tracing of the coffee all the way down to the coffee grower farmers so that the Agenda 21 AI police can analyse AI collected satellite images to insure the farms are not removing forests in their coffee operation. These big European coffee companies are certain that the Ethiopian farmers will never be capable of putting together the massive, complicated paperwork documentation that will be needed for them to prove that the coffee they are buying is not from a farm that has or is responsible for removing forested areas.
The diabolical thing here is that high grown coffee farming does just the opposite, it ensures there is always a canopy of trees since this is needed for sustaining their coffee trees. So, the local Ethiopian coffee growing population is being punished and possibly uprooted from their homes and farms for the crime of not being able to comply with Agenda 21's EUDR tracing paperwork requirements and not for breaking any deforestation rules.
Edited by allenb on 01/08/2024 6:36 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Piotrkurak
Hate to say this, but that resolution has been available since when I worked in the space business back in the '70s. Unsure if those pictures are still classified, they would have exceeded their classification life by now and not much reason to classify Ethiopian coffee fields other than the technology used to take those pictures. Cant see much under a tree canopy anyways but you can count trees and geo locate their removal down to less than 1meter square in commercially available pictures today. Net: bit of work shows how much deforestation has occured, if any. Will bugger up the independent subsistence farmers life world wide worse than it already is and generally make coffee beans much more expensive
 
renatoa
Curious to see they are worried about deforestation for certain culture especially, palm (oil) being the top of their concerns, while other cultures are encouraged and not tracked at all, as avocado for example...
 
allenb

Quote

renatoa wrote:

Curious to see they are worried about deforestation for certain culture especially, palm (oil) being the top of their concerns, while other cultures are encouraged and not tracked at all, as avocado for example...


The perpetrators of these coercive measures apply the thumb screws to the companies that purchase the products from the farmers or producers of the raw materials by either fining them or causing them to lose financing or incentive $. This forces them to discontinue doing business with the farmers who can't comply, putting them out of business.
In this case, its the "peasants", as they were called in the old days, who get the shaft. This is a repeat of what happened to them during the Bolsheviks reign of terror and Stalin's intentional starving them during the 1930s.
Others who are able to bribe their way out or have inside contacts can get away with not complying or are not targeted at all.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
allenb

Quote

Piotrkurak wrote:

Hate to say this, but that resolution has been available since when I worked in the space business back in the '70s. Unsure if those pictures are still classified, they would have exceeded their classification life by now and not much reason to classify Ethiopian coffee fields other than the technology used to take those pictures. Cant see much under a tree canopy anyways but you can count trees and geo locate their removal down to less than 1meter square in commercially available pictures today. Net: bit of work shows how much deforestation has occured, if any. Will bugger up the independent subsistence farmers life world wide worse than it already is and generally make coffee beans much more expensive


I agree on all points you make. I linked the satellite/AI service just to show people that with the new, improved AI versions, we're heading for a real "Brave New World" in that world government will be using this for real-time intrusion into our lives and, if not stopped or slowed down, will reek havoc on the little guy especially.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Piotrkurak
Not so worried with government. Am worried about corporations.

Can visualize stardorks new environmental Ethiopian, which will be still burnt
 
Bhante

Quote

allenb wrote:

It's interesting that EU is the biggest importer of Ethiopian coffee yet, instead of helping farmers find a way to comply with the new EUDR (european union deforestation regulations) paperwork tracing requirements, European coffee companies decide to stop buying Ethiopian green coffee which will result in massive increases in poverty/death to Ethiopian farmers.


I think most likely it will be a repeat of the Russian gas saga, roughly as follows:

EU intention is to slaughter the Ethiopian coffee producers (self-serving political ends of some kind), and enable big German companies to buy up Ethiopian plantations on the cheap (as they did in Eastern Europe several decades ago) and amalgamate the smallholdings into huge corporate plantations.

However the Ethiopian response to the demand for unavailable documentation will be to say the proverbial "up yours" to the EU, and "We refuse to sell to the EU". Contrary to the EU's hubris-laden assumptions, the price of Ethiopian coffee will go UP due to Germany having to buy at high cost through third parties, producers will sell slightly lower volumes at significantly higher margins, profits will vastly increase for peasants, and nobody sells their plantations. Germany meanwhile has to pay double the price due to a combination for increased raw product price with the high cost of evading the EU regulations through third parties.

EU/Western elites have proven themselves incompetent at forecasting the results of their hare-brained schemes due to excessive reliance on WISH-analysis. It is a mistake to underestimate their stupidity. The generally most effective rule of thumb is that the end result will be roughly the opposite of what they intended to happen.

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allenb
Corporate industrial farming takeover of small farming entities is now happening in all areas of agriculture worldwide at an ever increasing rate. The vehicle for most of it is the United Nations Agenda 21 sustainable development which has billions of dollars to do their bidding which allows them to bribe national and local governments. The end goal is total control of all natural resources and food production by corporations which themselves are able to be controlled. Peasants and small farms are not easily controlled.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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