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Effects of Grind on Flavor Notes
allenb
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Posted on 01/22/2024 6:17 PM
I picked up some Colombian Perla from Happymug a while back and have gotten fairly good results and is a close second to their Santa Barbara. Some reviews claimed there to be a flavor note resembling cherry cola which made me chuckle as I never experienced it even with many roast variations. I have only used my trusty Swiss Solis grinder for all of my brewing and cupping needs for quite a while. I have a Bunn LPG commercial grinder that I occasionally use to grind my daughters coffee when she is not able to grind at home. This week I ended up grinding some Perla in the Bunn LPG for a french press brew due to not having access to my Solis grinder in the kitchen. The grind size is close to what the Solis is set to but the LPG has a bit more uniform grind and has less fines. I was shocked to find a much more defined and intensely flavorful cup that I never experienced using my other domestic grinder. And, the cherry cola flavor note I had chuckled about was all there. I'm going to be trying all of my future roasts through this grinder from now on to see if I've been limiting my coffees potential with my other grinder.
So, my advice to everyone is you need to not just play around with grind size to find optimum flavor but you also need to try other grinders, especially ones that can produce less fines than the standard domestic models.
Edited by allenb on 01/22/2024 7:02 PM
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
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Posted on 01/23/2024 2:08 AM
What about sifting the grounds, to reduce the under 400 microns ratio ?
 
allenb
Top  #3 Print Post
Posted on 01/23/2024 8:14 AM
That could possibly create the same outcome as I found with the Bunn grinders cleaner grind. Where does one look to find the sifting devices?
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
renatoa
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Posted on 01/23/2024 8:59 AM
Kruve are the reference in this field, but expensive...
https://www.kruve...uve-sifter

I am using a flour sifter, measured several copies until I found one around 400-450?m size.
This is known as 40mesh count, the unit for sieve measurement => 425?m
 
allenb
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Posted on 01/24/2024 11:49 AM
Have you noticed any difference in the cup when removing the fines using the 40 mesh?
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
HarryDog
Top  #6 Print Post
Posted on 01/24/2024 12:03 PM
For sifting coffee maybe a larger sifter from amazon, 40 mesh & 60 mesh for $21 cad.
https://www.amazo...4&th=1
The Kruve would be great for espresso?
 
renatoa
Top  #7 Print Post
Posted on 01/24/2024 1:17 PM
Two article about how using sifting takes the coffee to a new level (of ridiculousness)... Grin ... quoting the author.

https://www.kruve...p-espresso
https://medium.co...bd4f843124
 
HarryDog
Top  #8 Print Post
Posted on 01/24/2024 1:31 PM
I would like to evaluate different grinders and burr sets, not sure I would sift every shot?
I do think I would sort my beans for roasting!
 
oldgrumpus
Top  #9 Print Post
Posted on 01/25/2024 8:40 PM
This thread got me to thinking that maybe, if one would increase the coarseness of their grinder a bit, there would be less fines being made.I’ve also wondered about whether or not my grinder is set too fine. So that being said, I did a little experiment. I increased the coarseness by two or three notches. Honestly, I didn’t expect much improvement in the cup. But I was surprised! It was noticeably better. I might do another couple of notches and see if it gets even better. I know there must be a point of no return, but I wonder how far I could go with us.
 
renatoa
Top  #10 Print Post
Posted on 01/26/2024 3:02 AM
Get a flour sieve, 40 mesh count, i.e. 0.45mm.
Find the size by taking a picture of the woven, on top of a ruler, then examine magnified on the screen.

Sift your grounds and weigh the fine ratio.
Play with coarseness until fraction less than 15-20%, ... quoted from a Kruve article.

Quote

...they all produce 11-13% at 400 ?m ... and between 20-30% at 800 ?m ...


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renatoa attached the following image:
image_2024-01-26_105354949.png
 
allenb
Top  #11 Print Post
Posted on 01/26/2024 8:46 AM

Quote

oldgrumpus wrote:

This thread got me to thinking that maybe, if one would increase the coarseness of their grinder a bit, there would be less fines being made.I’ve also wondered about whether or not my grinder is set too fine. So that being said, I did a little experiment. I increased the coarseness by two or three notches. Honestly, I didn’t expect much improvement in the cup. But I was surprised! It was noticeably better. I might do another couple of notches and see if it gets even better. I know there must be a point of no return, but I wonder how far I could go with us.


That's great news that it improved the cup. My theory is that fines and/or too fine of a grind has the effect of clouding flavor notes. I think they're all still there but don't have any particular separate position that can be sensed. It also can have the negative outcome of producing bitter notes as well as masking acidity that gives perceived brightness.
In my domestic grinder, I haven't found there to be less fines when grinding coarser although it did bring more clarity to the cup. Getting rid of the fines is definitely worth trying.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
Mike_Mathis
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Posted on 01/26/2024 9:13 AM
I know this concerning my grinder. I can change the grind setting within 4 settings or less and make slightly bitter-tasting coffee not bitter and slightly overly bright coffee not overly bright.
*Kaffelogic Nano 7
*Skywalker V1
*2023 BC-2
 
oldgrumpus
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Posted on 01/26/2024 11:21 AM

Quote

Mike_Mathis wrote:

I know this concerning my grinder. I can change the grind setting within 4 settings or less and make slightly bitter-tasting coffee not bitter and slightly overly bright coffee not overly bright.


I love this! I wish i had known sooner. Thank you!
 
Mike_Mathis
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Posted on 01/26/2024 4:22 PM

Quote

oldgrumpus wrote:

Quote

Mike_Mathis wrote:

I know this concerning my grinder. I can change the grind setting within 4 settings or less and make slightly bitter-tasting coffee not bitter and slightly overly bright coffee not overly bright.


I love this! I wish i had known sooner. Thank you!


Me too! I had a Capresso infinity grinder for years and I will not talk bad of it, but I have decided when it comes to grinders, up to a point, you get what you pay for.
*Kaffelogic Nano 7
*Skywalker V1
*2023 BC-2
 
HarryDog
Top  #15 Print Post
Posted on 01/26/2024 4:40 PM
For me every burr set has an effect on the taste of the coffee. My main grinder is the DF64, the Italmil burrs were terrible, HU pretty good, Cast (Dtting) version is very good, still have to try the MP version. I would like to find a good variable speed 64mm grinder to see how much that could improve the grind?

I find slightly courser grind allows more separation of flavor notes and finer is a more cohesive cup. Often within 2-3 notches on the DF64. On the grinder for drip/pour overs one notch is sweet or not.
 
renatoa
Top  #16 Print Post
Posted on 01/27/2024 2:16 AM
If you want to experience the absolute lack of fines, without any sifting, try a ghost burr grinder.
Imagine sugar like grounds, just crystals and some powder remaining on the collecting can walls.

Especially now, with the winter discounts, they are a bargain. https://www.aliex...89720.html

Add also as a bonus this model can be actuate by any electric power tool with standard hex mount.
With a RPM counter attached you have even variable speed! Grin
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renatoa attached the following images:
whatsapp_image_2024-01-27_at_094122.jpeg whatsapp_image_2024-01-23_at_172304.jpeg
Edited by renatoa on 01/27/2024 2:50 AM
 
allenb
Top  #17 Print Post
Posted on 01/27/2024 11:17 AM

Quote

If you want to experience the absolute lack of fines, without any sifting, try a ghost burr grinder.
Imagine sugar like grounds, just crystals and some powder remaining on the collecting can walls.



When I worked at a roastery in Boulder Colorado, I recall how defined and clean my french press brews were when using their old Grindmaster grinders which used the ghost burr technology. The clarity of the brew was almost like filter coffee.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
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