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Good yet unremarkable Brazilian Roast.
exer31337
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Posted on 12/15/2022 12:56 PM
Not sure what the problem is I am roasting a Brazilian coffee. It is grown at 1300 M so I don't think it is a low density bean, and it has good cupping scores. Bought from GO; BRAZIL FAZENDA BELA VISTA YELLOW BOURBON PULPED NATURAL 2022. Anyways I am getting a nice roast, smells great, when I drink it hot it is good, nice mouth feel etc. just no flavor. It is easy to drink, I wouldn't complain about having it as a coffee, but at the same time I wouldn't say this is a great coffee, it is good enough to not be bad. As it cools it gets a little acidity but it is more enjoyable than bad because at least it is a flavor. Roast time was 9:45 3 minutes of drying and then increased the heat up to about 510 for a finish. I've also tried going under that to about 8:30 roast time, that has a sour taste, or over that to 10:45+ and that ends up having even less flavor.

I am not sure where to go with this bean, I feel like if I roast it slower I bake out all flavor, and if I roast faster it ends up with a sour under roasted taste.

Roasted on an Artisan 2.5e with newer motor and heating elements. Brewing methods are espresso and pour over. Cupping it does have a nice acidic bite, but that was the same when the coffee as it cooled. I don't think it had much to do with cupping and more to do with it gaining flavor as it cooled.

First time roasting these kinds of beans if anyone else is familiar with Brazilian coffee feedback would be nice.
 
allenb
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Posted on 12/17/2022 7:28 AM
Looks like a really nice roaster you've got there! When you have a minute, let us know your thoughts on it's functionality/quality.
On your question with the Brazil, here's my suggestion for something to try. If your Artisan 2.5e has enough power to pull it off, go for yellow at 3 minutes then start of 1c by 6.5 minutes ending at 8 minutes. From 6.5 min to end of roast, keep power level high enough to hear a moderate to high level of 1st crack activity. Shoot for a roast level just beyond light to tame some of the acidity.
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
exer31337
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Posted on 12/17/2022 3:58 PM
So I did one just under 6.5 and just over 6.5 just over turned out better. I think they might have to much freshness (to moist) and need to dry out a little longer before roast (I am not sure on this), but I am not getting yellow at 3 minutes and if I push enough heat to get it yellow at that point and get FC at around 6:30 it comes out with under roasted tones. I will post again tomorrow after they've had a day to rest and I sample them again. The ones that were just over are so far the best tasting by themselves (I chew up the beans right after cooling to try to get an idea of the roast), and they aren't bad as an espresso right after...

I think what I am trying to chase with these beans is a more chocolate or caramel taste and that is where I am getting lost. Maybe it is just impossible to get that flavor from just coffee. I've noticed with the strongest smelling beans (under roasted) when I make a latte the sweetness of the milk definitely brings out a hint of chocolate, but then there is a hint of sour under roasted tones.

Do you know if extending the drying phase at a lower temp prior to the maillard phase will bake out flavors?

If this does work can you provide some feedback on what temp to avoid on ET so that the beans don't start roasting before drying?

I did the profile from one of the "Jims" of 380F for 3 minutes and then 480F to finish, that one started FC at around 7:32 and I pulled it at 8:45. It has nice acidity not much for sour overtones, but it just doesn't feel right for the smell. It makes a beautiful latte but has a acidic undertone.

I am thinking that is where I need to go next. Try to fully dry them without burning off flavors and sugars and then doing a faster maillard and development phase so it doesn't get to flat.

So far under roasted is the best flavor I've gotten with these beans but under roasted shouldn't be the best flavor. I am wondering if maybe I am just not listening to the beans, and trying to crank up the heat to make them roast at set intervals vs giving them time to dry and then adding heat.

The Roaster is a good build, and function, it's just dumb so I am writing down all my roast curves.... The most surprising aspect of the Artisan roaster is the support. You call for help and it is the people manufacturing them on the line that tell you what you need to do or look for. I just ordered all the parts to make it an Artisan controlled Artisan. I will definitely let you know how it goes once I've got that going.
 
renatoa
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Posted on 12/18/2022 1:57 AM
Jim Schulman post tell about a range of temperatures, from there you experimented with a pair for your particular roast. Other values could give other results.
Quoting him more exactly... he wrote about "a starting temperature of around 325F to 400F (163-204C), and a ramp up to around 450F to 480F(232-250C) in around 6 to 8 minutes, and holding it steady there to the end of the roast..."
These values works for most commercial roasters, but for a FB things happens much faster. So I would add some 10 degrees to the ranges above and divide times by half for a FB.
 
allenb
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Posted on 12/18/2022 8:13 AM
Curious to know what time/temp strategies has produced best results with your 2.5e prior to trying the Brazil? Any chance this Brazil might not be a star player?
1/2 lb and 1 lb drum, Siemens Sirocco fluidbed, presspot, chemex, cajun biggin brewer from the backwoods of Louisiana
 
exer31337
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Posted on 12/18/2022 10:37 AM
Renatoa, for some reason I was thinking that post was about ET on a fluid bed, but I think I might have read a repost of the post. That kind of hits the question I had though. Should I extend the drying phase by dropping the drying temp and holding it longer then ramp up the roast to try and get the beans to develop more in the milliard phase?

I am starting to think they might not be the best beans. Slightly sour under roasted tones, or bland when fully roasted. I have a mocamaster and a decent espresso machine so I think my brewing methods are on point. Then again is that the chef blaming the ingredientssmile. The 2.5 e is relatively new I bought the Brazilian for the purpose of learning the roaster. I don't like wasting any beans but $8.00 per mistake vs $14 makes a difference.

I feel like I need to increase the caramelization without extending the time at temp, because then I burn off the sugars. Not sure if that is possible though. All I can think of is hold it at a dry temp that isn't hot enough to start the milliard reaction, but then does that burn off the sugars and acids without it hitting milliard...

Just to be clear the under-roast is better because at least there is some flavor.
Edited by exer31337 on 12/18/2022 10:52 AM
 
renatoa
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Posted on 12/18/2022 10:56 AM
Yes, the temperatures are about ET, hot air performing the roast more exactly, not exhaust temperature.
Regarding roasting strategies... cheap beans are the worst for learning... and big quantities too...
What about a 50 grams FB sampler, that can be bought for about 300, and save you kilograms of trial and errors?
 
exer31337
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Posted on 12/18/2022 1:20 PM
Oh I've done all the home roasters there are and have been at it for a few years. Fresh roast -> Behmor -> Gene -> new roaster. This is the first roaster to get hot enough fast enough to really play with development. Before most of the beans have been about developing acidity, this is the first that I want to develop sweetness, without getting the flavors washed out, and that is where I am getting lost.

I also tried going under 1kg and it is to much heat/air to dial in a roast.

Mostly just trying to figure out how to get the sweetness to come out without baking out the flavors or going to second crack.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Also the roast is good, but I want it to be great.
Edited by exer31337 on 12/18/2022 2:17 PM
 
renatoa
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Posted on 12/18/2022 2:37 PM
You roast french but want to roast Argentina ! Grin
 
exer31337
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Posted on 12/18/2022 3:36 PM
Poor France.
 
exer31337
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Posted on 12/19/2022 5:14 PM
I've came to the conclusion that good coffee vs bad coffee is minutes apart. Good coffee vs great coffee is seconds apart. Tried a longer drying phase and a shorter roasting phase. Two different batches today, one was done at 10:25 one was done at 10:28 but the first had a much slower first crack about 20 degrees Fahrenheit difference during the roasting phase... Completely different coffees...

Thanks for the feedback here, I am going to just have to spend a lot more time learning to roast coffeesmile anyone in Arizona in need of some coffee?
 
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